current us events

jim993

New Member
the 9th district federal court found it unconstitutional to say the pledge in schools.

I should have capitalized us that way people would know i'm refuring the the US and not us
 

gamefoo21

New Member
HAHAHAHAHA now the us is really messed hahahaha its unconstitutional to say the pledge for your own country hahahaha. sorry sorry i just have to laugh at your justice system well court system.
 

racketboy

Member
this one:

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/kpix/20020626/lo/3706_1.html

I personally think it's pretty dumb. If people have a problem with believing in God, then that's their opinion.

Things like pledge do not "pressure" religion on people.

Just like the 10 Commandments in school -- people say it makes them feel "guilty". I don't know about you, but I believe they are an excellent code of conduct.

This country was founded by people who came over to have freedom to practice Christianity (in particular) and now we are slowly disolving any religious foundation in this country at all.

What's next, are they going to re-do all our currency so it doesn't say "In God We Trust".

I thought it was encouraging as many people started to get more interested in God and their "spiritual well-being" after the 9/11 crisis, but now people seem to have forgotten about it and blow it off.

Ok, I'm done ranting for now.

Thanks for your time
 

jim993

New Member
I think that the line "in god we trust" should just be taken out simple as that it was added in the 50s so just take it out.

the money thing i don't give a damn about since money is a source of evil in itself.

And you're right a lot of people in the US became more involved with religion after 9/11. As for me 9/11 cemented my agnostic stance towards religion.
 

racketboy

Member
Please don't take offense to my beliefs, but this is my thinking.

"In God We Trust" doesn't even specify a religion. Most religions have a god of some sort.

And I personally don't understand how anyone can look at this planet -- all the little things that make up life -- and not wonder how all of it came to be without having some "higher being" to create it. I mean, look at how detailed our bodies are and how all the organs and everything work together -- the way our brains process, think, and imagine. I can't see how some "freak of nature" could turn out as detailed as it did. It's just amazing once you really sit down and think about it.

Sure, mankind can come up with some interesting and wonderful inventions (the Dreamcast, for example
), but the human body, the 1000s of creatures that roam on this earth, and the earth itself are designs so superior that man cannot even fully comprehend everything.

And if you look at 9/11 and wonder how a loving God could let such a thing happen, as the Bible says, God has given man a free will. He also has used bad situations for good. Sometimes we focus on just the surface of situations, but there can be good that come from many things. And from another perspective, God may also use situations as a punishment.

Ok, I'm done with that rant for now
 

Rumata

New Member
And I personally don't understand how anyone can look at this planet -- all the little things that make up life -- and not wonder how all of it came to be without having some "higher being" to create it. I mean, look at how detailed our bodies are and how all the organs and everything work together -- the way our brains process, think, and imagine. I can't see how some "freak of nature" could turn out as detailed as it did. It's just amazing once you really sit down and think about it.
I think the theory of evolution pretty much covers that. Not to say that God does not exist, for it very well might, but not for that reason.
 

racketboy

Member
Originally posted by Rumata@June 26 2002,13:52

And I personally don't understand how anyone can look at this planet -- all the little things that make up life -- and not wonder how all of it came to be without having some "higher being" to create it. I mean, look at how detailed our bodies are and how all the organs and everything work together -- the way our brains process, think, and imagine. I can't see how some "freak of nature" could turn out as detailed as it did. It's just amazing once you really sit down and think about it.
I think the theory of evolution pretty much covers that. Not to say that God does not exist, for it very well might, but not for that reason.
Honestly, to me I can't see how that makes sense.

Also, even Darwin, before he died, said he didn't even think evolution was correct. (people don't like to mention that)

IMO evolution is just a way of man trying to reason out a way to explain it without acknowleging the existance of God.
 

Rumata

New Member
Darwin saying that evolution may not be correct does not prove the theory wrong. During his lifetime the theory was not complete. Since then it has been much extended and given numerous proofs by archeology and genetics. I understand why one would deny the theory, but it is too logical to prove wrong.
IMO evolution is just a way of man trying to reason out a way to explain it without acknowleging the existance of God.
One could also say that God is a way for man to try to explain himself without understanding evolution, which is of course fine, for it does not harm anyone.
 

Random Hajile

New Member
My opinion? I think we should just remove the references to god in the pledge then it would be just fine.

Personally, I'm not a believer in god, and I haven't been for several years.

I don't usually get offended by people who are relegeous, But I don't want to see the word "god" on everything. like money, TV shows, etc.

I won't get into the darwin stuff here, but there is alot more about the recinding of his evolutional theory than what's widely reported.
 

racketboy

Member
woo.. for segaxtreme, we're getting pretty deep here


I have yet to see or even hear about any scientific "evidence" that proves evolution to be true.

God, however, is not "something" that can be proven. It is mearly a faith issue.

Here's a favorite quote of mine:

"Can you catch the wind?

Can you see God, have you ever seen Him?

I've never seen the wind.

I seen the effects of the wind.

But I've never seen the wind.

Can you see the breeze?

There's a mystery to it"

 

Random Hajile

New Member
This could turn out to be a sensitive topic for some readers.

Here's a little story I will share with you.....

I lost my best friend to the god issue, not too long ago.

He was a devout Baptist, and as long as he didn't know my true feelings on the subject he was fine with me.

When he discovered that I did not believe in god, he told me I was going to hell and never called my house again.

I was shocked! I could respect his beliefs, why did he hate me for mine?

I still cannot understand his judgemental behavior, and I never once attacked his beliefs.

I have always wondered about his argument for "who created the planet" when he never asked "who created god"
 

DBOY

New Member
Science is just as bad as religion. Religion and science are really just man's tools to explain the otherwise unexplainable. The reson that religion and science constantly battle each other is because they validate their existance based ont heir own proofs. You can't apply science to religion and you can't apply religion to science. Doing so just gives you a bad sci-fi flick plot.

Once you step back to look at them as tools of explanation rather than icons of worship (and oh yes, people worship science. Just look at the French Revolution. They built altars to REASON, not the god of reason but to REASON itself. The entire enlightenment was just a shift of people's religous devotion onto the scientific principles of the enlightenment: reason, science, and progress) it's a lot less powerful.

I had a really nice history class at the univ. last year with a great profressor. He brought up a lot of things most professors just like to step around ad forget happened and one of his main goals for the class wasn't just to teach history, but to get people to think about how it led to where things are today. That class really gave me a new perspective on many things.

Regarding the ban of the pledge, that makes me very happy. It gives me hope that at some point people may actually overcome this whole silly concept of patriotism which just further divides everyone in the world. Recognizing and validating yourself based on national identity is dodging around figuring out who you really are and how much you have in common with not just everyone of your nationality or skin color, but the entire world.
 

racketboy

Member
Originally posted by Random Hajile@June 26 2002,14:51

This could turn out to be a sensitive topic for some readers.

Here's a little story I will share with you.....

I lost my best freind to the god issue, not too long ago.

He was a devout Baptist, and as long as he didn't know my true feelings on the subject he was fine with me.

When he discovered that I did not believe in god, he told me I was going to hell and never called my house again.

I was shocked! I could respect his beliefs, why did he hate me for mine?

I still cannot understand his judgemental behavior, and I never once attacked his beliefs.

I have always wondered about his argument for "who created the planet" when he never asked "who created god"
that's a very sad story.

I'm a Baptist too. I hate to see it when Christians act that way towards people who don't have the same beliefs as us.

I don't want to pressure my beliefs on anyone, but I do feel the responsibility to share my beliefs with other and to stand up for what i believe. I also respect those who do the same.

Christianity has gotten such a bum rap by so many people who are too "pushy" about it. Like all those people you see preaching on the street corners in big cities. When I see them I just ache inside because they aren't helping any by handling it that way. It turns so many people off. I may agree with many if not most of their core beliefs, but just they're way of handling was innappropriate.

If you know much about Jesus, he did not act like that. He was very loving even to "sinful" people like prostitutes and theives. I believe we should all be like that. Everyone is created equal. We're all in the same boat.
 

racketboy

Member
Originally posted by DBOY@June 26 2002,14:54

Regarding the ban of the pledge, that makes me very happy. It gives me hope that at some point people may actually overcome this whole silly concept of patriotism which just further divides everyone in the world. Recognizing and validating yourself based on national identity is dodging around figuring out who you really are and how much you have in common with not just everyone of your nationality or skin color, but the entire world.
In a way I guess I agree with that statement. I love my country and my freedoms, but I do think that we can get a little too carried away with patriotism -- which can bring strife.
 

Falstaf

New Member
This is an interesting discussion for this type of board. Its one that has been 'chewed' over by many people for many years. But a few interesting points have been made.

First, Racketboy expresses an unpopular view, by todays standard of scientific 'enlightenment'. Going back to the 1930s people in general felt that science held all the answers and would resolve all of mans problems. So far they have made life more convenient but while causing many more problems. Oh, dont get me wrong. The advances in the medical field, especially, are notable. I was more thinking along the lines of the pollution from mnfg and our sick need to find ever horrendous ways of mass desruction. Does science really have the answers? Not at the moment for as has been pointed out, we dont comprehend enough about ourselves and our planet.

About evolution.....It has been taught for many years in schools in the states. Yet, even now we still correctly refer to it as a theory or 'unproven idea'. This is essentially correct. There are several holes in the fossil record and those wonderful drawings we see in science classes of the progression of man are only very beautifully rendered ideas or theories of mans evolutionary progression. Nothing more. But we have been taught that they are fact. Here's an interesting side point. Many of the most famous fossil finds of the remains of early man have been found, upon closer examination, to have been faked. Pieces of different simion beings put together. The famous remains known as Lucy are the first example that comes to mind.

But here is a radical new thought for many. The scientific explanations we recieve for the earths formation, actually harmonizes with the bibles explanation in Genesis. What???? Yes, many theorticions have now come to that conclusion. Look at it. The Bible does not say how old the planet is. It simply states that it was created and existed in an undeveloped form form an undetermined period of time. The creative days were not 24 hr days as we know them. The bible states that a day is like a thousand years to God. It doesnt say it is a thousand years, but like a 1000 yrs. In other words, a very long undetermined period of time, maybe even hundreds of thousands or even millions of years. I wont go into any more detail but my point is that science, even the evolutionary theories explanation for the planet and lifes progression on it, and the bibles explanations, are not that far apart. So those who argue over which is correct are really not that far apart.

As for the pledge issue...its a constitutional issue known as the devision of church and state. We all know what happens when a religion rules the government. We only have to look at history to see genocide and intolerance because of the overzelous who know little of the bible/koran/talmud/ect and who really are more interested in an excuse for violence.

The soap box is now free for the next contender.
 

DBOY

New Member
Originally posted by racketboy@June 26 2002,15:02

In a way I guess I agree with that statement. I love my country and my freedoms, but I do think that we can get a little too carried away with patriotism -- which can bring strife.
I don't think it can bring strife, it DOES bring strife. It leads to everyone ganging up for a common cause.

My biggest problem with the USA is how it thinks it's the world's big brother. If the USA just minded it's own business half the time, there wouldn't be so many people out there seeking it's destruction.

Go read some history books, particularly Afghanistan: The Bear Trap. The USA does business with a lot of nasty characters (we were paying around $32 million or so a year to the Taiban from '91-'01 to control opium production. They controled it's production by executiong farmers rather than plowing fields, real nice). How many times has the USA used the kirds promising an independant Kirdistan. And anyone remember the whole beginnings of the Iran/Iraq deal when we were giving Saddam Hussein lots of money and weapons?

The USA plays power games with the entire world for it's own interests. Other countrys do it too just not as severely and not on as large as scale. I think if most of the USA knew about everything the government does, there would be another revolution. As it is I really only give the USA another 100 years before one happens. As governments go, ours has already been around a long time. Change is coming eventually. All it will take is someone to tell all the current government's dirty little secrets and have a better plan than what's being done now.
 

racketboy

Member
Originally posted by DBOY@June 26 2002,15:18

My biggest problem with the USA is how it thinks it's the world's big brother. If the USA just minded it's own business half the time, there wouldn't be so many people out there seeking it's destruction.
I'm assuming you're not from the States.

I am, but I agree with you that we butt our heads into too many people's business. I may agree with a lot of what they are fighting FOR, but that doens't mean we need to do the fighting itself.
 

DBOY

New Member
Originally posted by falstaff@June 26 2002,15:14

First, Racketboy expresses an unpopular view, by todays standard of scientific 'enlightenment'. Going back to the 1930s people in general felt that science held all the answers and would resolve all of mans problem. So far they have made life more convenient while causing many more problem. Oh, dont get me wrong. The advances in the medical field especially are notable. I was more thinking along the line of the pollution from mnfg and our sick need to find ever horrendous ways of mass desruction. Does science realy have the answers? Not at the moment for as has been pointed out, we dont comprehend enough about ourselves and our planet.
I thought I was the one who mentioned that


Yes, it's a rather unpopular view. But here's another one. The third phase of the industrial revolution, commonly called the chemical phase, really had nothing to do with the development of chemicals. It was the development of propganda as an art and the manufacutre of false desires in people.

Go pick up some women's magazines of the 20's and 30's. They feature large ads like one depicting a woman staring out a window on a rainy day with a horrified look, It says "On days like this, aren't you glad he's safe?" An advertisement for stone burial chambers.

Lets think a moment. You are dead. You are decomposing. The name escapes me at the moment but I assume it was a taoist master who said it. His students asked how he should be buried when he died. And he was startled at the concept saying instead he should be left outside to be picked apart by other living things. Let the birds eat his eyes and the dogs eat his flesh and let the worms work his body back into the earth. You are DEAD. It's not like you feel it. You are just food for something else in the cycle of life. Thinking you are anything more is incredibly arrogant and shows someone who really does not know their place int he world.

Similarly, look at the toaster. It takes a perfectly soft, moist, edible piece of bread and BURNS IT. Then you can't eat it till you put butter or jelly on it, both of which you need to keep in a refridgerator, which requires electricity, which requires you to have electricity run to your house and pay a monthly electric bill. In buying a toaster, to get any use out of it you have just commited to buying FOUR other purchases. Originally toasters were nothing but a rich novelty. Advertisingmade the middle-class desire it, then they dumped all their money into toasters and accessory purchases, none of which are necessary to be happy.

I think science has cost humanity a whole lot, just not in ways most people normally look at.
 
Top