Matrix Revolutions

mal

Established Member
Is everyone giving it a miss after seeing Reloaded?

I haven't been able to see it yet because of work, but I'm going when I'm free (Tuesday).

It's no big deal, I'm just a little suprised no one has brought it up yet. *shrug*
 

Shitface

Established Member
There will probobly be more talk about it about a week or two after its release. Thats what happen when I asked about the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
 

CrazyGoon

Established Member
Originally posted by mal@Nov 7, 2003 @ 05:56 AM

Is everyone giving it a miss after seeing Reloaded?

I haven't been able to see it yet because of work, but I'm going when I'm free (Tuesday).

It's no big deal, I'm just a little suprised no one has brought it up yet. *shrug*

From what I heard, revolutions makes up for reloaded three-fold.
 

vbt

Staff member
Unfortunatly I missed Matrix Reloaded and waited for the DVD release before seeing Matrix 3. But Matrix 3 is already available :( . It means I won't go to see the 3 at the cinema too (not before the 2). I'll wait for the DVD pack if they decide to produce one. :)
 

IceDigger

Founder
Staff member
It was really slow in the beginning and the last fight was dragged out waaaay to long. Other then that it was great.
 

Scared0o0Rabbit

Established Member
I've heard from quite a few people that it was actually worse than the second one. In any case, I already wish I had the $9 I spent on teh ticket and 2 hours of my life back from watching the 2nd one, I won't be risking my time or money on the third one.
 

racketboy

Established Member
I haven't seen the 2nd one yet.

Don't shoot me.

I just watched half of the Animatrix last night.

Great animation, but some of it is pretty depressing (primarily "The Second Renaissance ")
 

it290

Established Member
Yeah, I tried to scam a ticket off my buddy for $3, but unfortunately it was a no go. I think I'll wait for the dvd. The Animatrix was cool though.. although you have to wonder, with that one cartoon where that kid was so freaking cool when escaping the agents, why did he suck so badly in the real world?
 
Originally posted by Scared0o0Rabbit@Nov 7, 2003 @ 01:26 PM

I've heard from quite a few people that it was actually worse than the second one. In any case, I already wish I had the $9 I spent on teh ticket and 2 hours of my life back from watching the 2nd one, I won't be risking my time or money on the third one.

Pay attention next time you watch a movie. ;)

I loved Revolutions. I loved the whole trilogy.

When the inevitable DVD box set appears, I am so fscking buying it.
 

Shitface

Established Member
I don't know what ya'll are talkin' 'bout. 2 was a great movie. As was one. Many people say they talk to much in the second one, but if they didn't talk, there would be no story development, character growth, and now way to understand whats happening at all. I took the dvd of Reloaded to my friends house and all he could say was... "damn... stop talking already and fight!". But then he didn't understand a damn thing that was going on and i had to explain it all to him.
 
I think that Revolutions makes Reloaded seem as good as the first one. It had its moments, but seemed like a piss poor effort to me. Extremely dissapointing.
 

ratfish

Established Member
Originally posted by Jurai@Nov 7, 2003 @ 02:28 PM

they should've stopped after the first one, 2 and 3 are [poopy -ed.]

I agree.

I was one of the few fans of the first movie who were disappointed after seeing the second and third iterations.

-SPOILER-

Reloaded was alright (my main gripe was having to see Neo's ass, with the whole raving/fucking scene not being a necessity, while they could have spent that time refining the plot or something).

Revolutions turned out to be a disappointment in its own way. There were too many things that were left unexplained that could have been been elaborated (how Neo could separate his body from his mind, unconsciously jacking in, how he defeated Smith, what exactly he was seeing in flames (light patterns), etc.). Some of the fight scenes (the diggers at Zion especially) were long and could have been shortened for the final cut where more story/explanation could have been put in. I found myself leaving a lot to my imagination because of the loose (if any) explanations offered by the story.

I wouldn't have been angry if they had decided to postpone the 3rd movie for another year to work on it in depth, refining some vital points here and there, editing and such.

Otherwise, it was worth $8.25.
 
Revolutions turned out to be a disappointment in its own way. There were too many things that were left unexplained that could have been been elaborated (how Neo could separate his body from his mind, unconsciously jacking in

It's because he's The One, they said so in the movie. And he didn't actually ENTER the matrix on his own, he was stuck halfway, in the Train Station - which if you think about it is a paradox in and of itself, how can you have a place halfway between simulation and real world?

how he defeated Smith

There are two possibilities.

1. Neo and Smith were, as Oracle said, two halves of a balanced equation. My friend Jon thinks that when Smith absorbed Neo, the equation was completed, thus resulting in no more need for either half to exist.

or

2. Neo was jacked DIRECTLY into a Machine terminal, controlled by the Deus Ex Machina. Most tend to think that when Smith absorbed Neo, the DEM gained direct access to Smith's core code, and was then able to analyse it and introduce a 100% perfect counter-virus against him.

what exactly he was seeing in flames (light patterns), etc.).

This one was less obvious.

He seemed to have some innate sense for Machine code being executed. Anything controlled by the Machine AI was visible to Neo. It IS weird, but can you come up with anything better?

Some of the fight scenes (the diggers at Zion especially) were long and could have been shortened for the final cut where more story/explanation could have been put in. I found myself leaving a lot to my imagination because of the loose (if any) explanations offered by the story.

That was intentional. The Brothers, just like in the previous two movies, wanted to leave some things open to interpretation. If everything was explained in black and white terms, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now, ne?
 

ratfish

Established Member
Originally posted by Tagrineth+Nov 8, 2003 @ 11:45 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tagrineth @ Nov 8, 2003 @ 11:45 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>It's because he's The One, they said so in the movie. And he didn't actually ENTER the matrix on his own, he was stuck halfway, in the Train Station - which if you think about it is a paradox in and of itself, how can you have a place halfway between simulation and real world?[/b]


There must be more than just our world and the computer world. There's an intangible link somewhere between the two or something.

Originally posted by Tagrineth@Nov 8, 2003 @ 11:45 AM

He seemed to have some innate sense for Machine code being executed. Anything controlled by the Machine AI was visible to Neo. It IS weird, but can you come up with anything better?

Neo must have had a seventh sense. I've heard that when a person loses one of their senses, usually their other senses improve a little bit.

<!--QuoteBegin-Tagrineth
@Nov 8, 2003 @ 11:45 AM

That was intentional. The Brothers, just like in the previous two movies, wanted to leave some things open to interpretation. If everything was explained in black and white terms, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now, ne?[/quote]

I felt that there was too much left open-ended. Neo needed answers too, which showed when he kept asking the Oracle for answers. But then some things best left unexplained. Conscious choice was a big part of the theme.
 
*SPOILERS AHEAD*

It pisses me off, I have too many questions....and when you have too many questions it usually means that there are too many holes in plot or idea. To give an excuse as "parts were left open for interpretation" is just to say that they had no way of explaining it themselves so they just through some things into the movie to add to the story.

Who wants to explain the ending to me...Smith replicates himself into neo...and then everything just starts to vaporize....I don't follow..

The Architect and the Oracle are talking at the end... they question the peace and how long it will last...what do they care, they are just loaded programs, they'll just get reloaded eveytime the matrix gets destroyed...

The humans that remain in Zion...I thought their goal was too free all the humans...well if they have peace with the machines, but the machines still need the humans for power supply, so they are still creating them and having them live in the Matrix, isn't that what the free humans want to stop? so how can they have peace...The robots should know that another war will start again like it did before, so now that Neo is gone, why do they honor his peace offer, why not finish off Zion and not allow it to be rebuilt again.

How does Neo go in and out of the matrix w/o jacking in...how did the squirly kid from the animatrix unplug himself without help, and why is that even important, he didn't even need a role in the movie.

How does Agent smith do the things he does? True he is a program and can change the code of the matrix, but if he could leave the matrix in a humans body once, why didn't he have multiple copies of himself leave the matrix before he fights Neo.

When there are tons of Agent Smith's around at once, why do they just sit back and watch? If one Smith alone can almost kick the living shit out of Neo, think what 1,000,000 could do.

:damn: :damn: :damn:

I HATE THIS SHIT!!

The first movie was good, cause it got you thinking, and the holes that were there could be overlooked as the idea and plot played out well. Not saying that major questions like this werent' in the original but these questions, could have been avoided to still enjoy the flick....but with the 2nd and 3rd in the series I just feel like it turned into a big flashy money maker.

[/End Rant]

I'm going crazy :looney
 

Curtis

Established Member
Just saw it last night - spoilers ahead.

Good stuff:
  • CG was amazing. Some of the scenes were simply breathtaking - especially the dock/APU scenes and the hovership aproaching the machine city. They obviously had some excellent conceptual artists working for the film.
  • Action was good. Exciting stuff.
  • A level of completeness. At least some of the things were explained, enough to make it somewhat worthwhile.
  • Agent smith impersonator did a really excellent job with the character. You could almost believe that it was Smith talking.
Bad things:
  • Trinity's death scene. Just when on and on and on. I was twiddling my thumbs half way through - die already!.
  • They didn't need to re-do the "lobby scene". I got bored - you knew what the outcome was going to be, and what it would look like.
  • Too much religious imagery. Did Neo need to be crucified at the end?
  • Too many new questions raised. The Smiths, Neo's hand waving thing, the Station, The French Man, etc, etc.
  • Factual (or seemingly so) errors - like the hovership. How did that get above the clouds?
  • Action too intense at times - Strobe lights are fine in moderation, but can ruin the experience and give headaches if used too much.
Meh...probably a whole heap more. I didn't like the second one, and this one may have only been mariginally better. It's like they spent too much time trying to give an interesting SF concept too much substance, and lost the plot along the way.
 
It pisses me off, I have too many questions....and when you have too many questions it usually means that there are too many holes in plot or idea. To give an excuse as "parts were left open for interpretation" is just to say that they had no way of explaining it themselves so they just through some things into the movie to add to the story.

Or, alternately, you weren't paying enough attention to the movie.

Who wants to explain the ending to me...Smith replicates himself into neo...and then everything just starts to vaporize....I don't follow..

There are two possibilities:

1. The Oracle said that Neo and Smith are two halves of a balanced equation, Neo being good and Smith being evil. She said that if the two halves were ever combined, the result would be that they would cancel each other out. Therefore, when Neo's half of the equation was mixed with Smith's... boom, cancellation... or, simply, BALEETED.

2. Neo was jacked directly into a Machine terminal - in fact, he was jacked straight into the Deus Ex Machina itself. My initial thought was that when Neo was absorbed by Smith, he martyred himself to give the DEM direct access to Smith's core through Neo's mind, which allowed the DEM to offer Smith a lovely little -kill command.

The Architect and the Oracle are talking at the end... they question the peace and how long it will last...what do they care, they are just loaded programs, they'll just get reloaded eveytime the matrix gets destroyed...

If you'd been paying attention to the Merovingian in Reloaded, yes they do get reloaded, but THEY REMEMBER EVERYTHING FROM THE PREVIOUS VERSIONS. In fact, the Matrix did get reloaded right at the end, remember that flash of green right after all was finished and it showed the little girl and the cat on the sidewalk? That was the Matrix upgrading to version 7.0 with Neo's code inserted into the Source.

The humans that remain in Zion...I thought their goal was too free all the humans...well if they have peace with the machines, but the machines still need the humans for power supply, so they are still creating them and having them live in the Matrix, isn't that what the free humans want to stop? so how can they have peace...The robots should know that another war will start again like it did before, so now that Neo is gone, why do they honor his peace offer, why not finish off Zion and not allow it to be rebuilt again.

Their goal was always to STOP THE MACHINES, not to free everyone. Freeing humans was a means to attack the machines' dominance.

Think about this, too: The Machines only fought back against humans because the humans enslaved them to begin with. Basically, an eye for an eye. With the end of the war, the Machines no longer have any reason to kill the population of Zion - remember, the whole reason for Zion's existence is to keep the 'One' cycle going, which had the dual purpose of killing off dissident humans who rejected the Matrix, and resetting and upgrading the Matrix to better, more acceptable versions. If there's no more war, you don't need to worry about dissident humans, and remember also that the Architect said they'd agreed to allow any humans to disconnect if they so desire.

Basically, the 'One' cycle and assaulting Zion is a resource drain that, with no war to maintain, is no longer necessary.

How does Neo go in and out of the matrix w/o jacking in...how did the squirly kid from the animatrix unplug himself without help, and why is that even important, he didn't even need a role in the movie.

Neo's 'The One' power extends beyond just the cyber world, he has some kind of intrinsic link to the Machine AI. When he accessed the Sentinels' code at the end of Reloaded, Bane set off the EMP which fried the Sentinels, and that in turn shot a bolt of feedback into Neo's mind. The Sentinels are remotely connected to the Machine AI, and for some unknown reason Neo's mind was pulled along that link into the Matrix. That's my best guess. No, it isn't explained, but it was a nifty plot device.

How does Agent smith do the things he does? True he is a program and can change the code of the matrix, but if he could leave the matrix in a humans body once, why didn't he have multiple copies of himself leave the matrix before he fights Neo.

Bane was removed from the Matrix by the HUMANS. It seems that after Smith absorbs a human in the Matrix, his code resides in their mind and controls their body in the Matrix... which means that if an absorbed human is pulled out, Smith's mind goes with it. That's why Bane was Smith. And keep in mind, around that time they also more or less stopped pulling humans to the real world - Bane was among the last humans freed.

When there are tons of Agent Smith's around at once, why do they just sit back and watch? If one Smith alone can almost kick the living shit out of Neo, think what 1,000,000 could do.

Smith explained this before the fight began, jesus you really weren't paying ANY attention were you? He decided that since it was to be the final battle, he wanted to keep things interesting rather than making it a pure slaughter.

Also keep in mind that Oracle was the Unbalancer of Equations, the antithesis to the Architect, and when Smith absorbed Oracle it unbalanced his AI severely. In other words, Smith wasn't exactly sane in that last fight either.

The first movie was good, cause it got you thinking, and the holes that were there could be overlooked as the idea and plot played out well. Not saying that major questions like this werent' in the original but these questions, could have been avoided to still enjoy the flick....but with the 2nd and 3rd in the series I just feel like it turned into a big flashy money maker.

It turned into a lower quality movie from a production standpoint, and more of a 'let's give them something to think about' movie.

Trinity's death scene. Just when on and on and on. I was twiddling my thumbs half way through - die already!.

Agreed. That was one of my two problems with Reloaded.

The other problem was, they should've shown Seraph vs. Smith. ^_^

They didn't need to re-do the "lobby scene". I got bored - you knew what the outcome was going to be, and what it would look like.

They didn't quite redo it - Seraph was there, they had to show him fight at least once, and the villains were AI's. The lobby shootout villains were normal humans.

Too many new questions raised. The Smiths, Neo's hand waving thing, the Station, The French Man, etc, etc.

The Smiths was raised in the previous movie. Basically after Neo fudged his code at the end of the first movie, Smith became a virus and gained the ability to 'take over' other programmes (human minds included). Neo's hand waving thing was a direct result of his 'One' powers - he has an intrinsic link to the Machine AI, and has some control over ANYTHING involving it, even in the real world. The Station was explained well enough, it's a "link" between the Matrix and the Real World... the two 'parent' AI's were real machines from outside the Matrix (and had machine bodies, I would assume) and the Train Station was the means by which they put their "daughter"'s code into the Matrix. The story behind the Frenchman? Good lord, man, did you pay any attention to one of Reloaded's longest scenes?

Factual (or seemingly so) errors - like the hovership. How did that get above the clouds?

They pulled up at full velocity, and I assume by the time the engines cut out, they had enough inertia to bring them just over the cloud layer. Simple physics. The engines don't have to be on the whole time.

Action too intense at times - Strobe lights are fine in moderation, but can ruin the experience and give headaches if used too much.

Strobe lights?[
 
Tagrineth~

Thank you for answering my questions, makes more sense now, but still not complete. I don't know how you picked all that up, I bet I could watch that movie 10 times and still not fully understand it... :blush:

I don't agree with your War theory though. I don't see how it could just stop where it is...so do you imply that the humans will just co-exist with the machines...humans living in Zion, machines living on the surface...?

That won't work...and why was a New Matrix created again.. if the war is over why is there a need to have another matrix just so the cycle can repeat...
 
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