New Sega arcade hardware

[Alexvrb]

Sega is finishing completion of their next-gen arcade hardware! Their new hardware again uses a graphics chip from PowerVR, although I have not seen any details on it. I'm just glad Sega has a new high-end arcade system - looks like they aren't going to be stuck using the Atomiswave for everything after all.

SPOnG

 

[mal]

That's fantastic news.

I can't wait to hear what games they're developing for it.

 

[Alexvrb]

I know. It'll blow away anything even their Chihiro boards can produce...

System16 has Virtua Fighter 5 and Sega Rally 3 listed under "Next Generation Hardware", so those may very well be on this new board. Imgtec has their page back up, although it pretty much says what SPOnG posted. Looks like Series 5 hardware is going to be in this (Series 2 was in DC and PC, Series 3 was the Kyro PC cards, and Series 4 was canceled/skipped over). Heh, I guess the only downside is that it means arcade-perfect conversions won't be possible on current consoles.

 

[IBarracudaI]

Great News! :cheers

 

[gameboy900]

Originally posted by Alexvrb@Mar 19, 2004 @ 09:41 PM

I know. It'll blow away anything even their Chihiro boards can produce...

System16 has Virtua Fighter 5 and Sega Rally 3 listed under "Next Generation Hardware", so those may very well be on this new board. Imgtec has their page back up, although it pretty much says what SPOnG posted. Looks like Series 5 hardware is going to be in this (Series 2 was in DC and PC, Series 3 was the Kyro PC cards, and Series 4 was canceled/skipped over). Heh, I guess the only downside is that it means arcade-perfect conversions won't be possible on current consoles.

Arcade perfect conversions are bad. It's why the arcades are dying. In the old days you had to go to an arcade to get the full effect of the superior hardware. Now you just gotta wait a few months for the same game to appear on a console, so why bother going to the arcade in the first place.

 

[Dr_Frankenmiga]

PowerVR I used to have a graphics card by them and it was the most unsupported piece of crap in exsistence I went back to my S3 mind you this was like back in 97 so lets hope things have change.The card was good though when things worked.

This I gotta see!!!

 

[it290]

Sega's been using PowerVRs for a while. I wonder though, does the new model use a nonstandard architechture like the Kyro did? Because that didn't end up working out that well performance-wise (although it probably would have if companies had supported it). And when you say series 4 was cancelled, didn't they make a Kyro2? Or is that just counted as an extension of the series 3 line?

 

[muffinman943]

yay

 

[M3d10n]

Originally posted by it290@Mar 20, 2004 @ 12:33 PM

Sega's been using PowerVRs for a while. I wonder though, does the new model use a nonstandard architechture like the Kyro did? Because that didn't end up working out that well performance-wise (although it probably would have if companies had supported it). And when you say series 4 was cancelled, didn't they make a Kyro2? Or is that just counted as an extension of the series 3 line?

The "non-standard" architecture isn't the problem. It is very efficient, and is light years ahead "standard" architecture when it comes to handling objects with transparency, since the PowerVR series (Kryo's too?) is capable of sorting transparent polygons in the hardware and per pixel. The "standard" architecture is unable to do so, and all sorting is up to the application, and must be done in the CPU (maybe it can be done by vertex shaders, but that's beyond my knowledge).

The problem is that the PVR series were low in the fillrate area, because the HW designers think everyone is willing to design only indoor scenes with lots of overdraw, that'll be eliminated by the deferred rendering, and always gave their cards low memory speeds.

The PVR architecture under high speed memory would be a total killer, but maybe that'd make it a tad more expensive than standard architecture boards. Maybe they'll make a fast one for series 5...

Does anyone know if series 5 will be capable of executing fragment and vertex programs?

 

[Alexvrb]

Frankenmiga: The Kyro I and II (both Series 3) has had good support, and actually outperformed their competition at the time. They're just old. Anyway, Dreamcast, Atomiswave, and Naomi-based boards (including Naomi 2) have all been using Series 2 PowerVR chips. So Sega is far from unfamiliar with their chips.

Medion: Part of the problem with the Kyro series was their low speeds. They are so efficient they competed against cards with MUCH higher core + memory speeds. They also for some reason had forced synchronous core+mem, for instance my Kyro II ran at 175/175 stock. As for Series 5, it should be very fast, and at least DX9-level hardware. After all, why else would PowerVR release new demos using pixel+vertex 3.0 shaders?

 

[reX dart: eskimo spy]

I wonder how Sammy feels about this.

Way to go, Sega.

Sega to Sammy: :flamethrower:

 

[Berty]

Its great that sega are finally introducing a new generation of arcade hardware. Hopefully it will breathe some life back into the dying Australian arcade scene. I used to work in a video game store that was right near an arcade, and most of the arcade hardware looked badly dated next to what we were selling in the store (ie gamecube etc.) BEFORE everybody starts telling me how the System 246 Hardware is superior to anything yadda yadda yadda, just let me say that back when i was a boy I used to play my Megadrive at home and then go into the arcades and be blown away by some of the games there, ie virtual fighter. But nowdays it seems that the difference between arcade graphics hardware and home hardware is very small. After all, arent the arcades test grounds for new generations of home console hardware?

 

[gameboy900]

Originally posted by Berty@Mar 23, 2004 @ 12:15 AM

After all, arent the arcades test grounds for new generations of home console hardware?

I'd say these days it's more like the other way around. The make the home console then take it's stuff, strip the CD drive add more RAM and make it into a arcade board.

 

[Alexvrb]

Originally posted by gameboy900+Mar 23, 2004 @ 07:30 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gameboy900 @ Mar 23, 2004 @ 07:30 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Berty@Mar 23, 2004 @ 12:15 AM

After all, arent the arcades test grounds for new generations of home console hardware?

I'd say these days it's more like the other way around. The make the home console then take it's stuff, strip the CD drive add more RAM and make it into a arcade board. [/b][/quote]

Not exactly, I'd say it isn't really either case. While arcade systems aren't testing grounds for home hardware, home consoles certainly aren't testing grounds for new arcade hardware. What I mean by that is that they don't need for the home hardware to "prove" itself before making it into an arcade unit. Naomi was side-by-side with DC, and would have done fine on its own - it is often just cheaper and more convenient to use existing hardware. I think that is what it often boils down to.

Anyway, Sega is showing that they can still design awesome new hardware, so just be happy in either case. Oh yes, and you did forget that they often don't strip out the optical drive when making a console an arcade unit - the GD-ROMs used in many Naomi systems were a very smart move. It only runs when you first power the unit on, storing the game in plain ol RAM.

 

[gameboy900]

The Naomi didn't originally ship with the GD-ROM drives. They added it as an option once they realized it would let devs make bigger better games.

 

[Alexvrb]

Originally posted by gameboy900@Mar 24, 2004 @ 04:48 AM

The Naomi didn't originally ship with the GD-ROM drives. They added it as an option once they realized it would let devs make bigger better games.

I dunno about bigger or better, but cheaper in either case. But how do you know they didn't intend for it to be an option from the start?

 

[gameboy900]

Because it took two years at least before it was made available to developers. And because in some cases older Naomi boards can't use it due to old firmware.