What you think? Micheal Moore a genius or does he just fuck up his facts to present a compelling case?
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Bowling for Columbine
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Ill try to catch the movie but as for facts who knows ...I live about half an hour from columbine and the story was on the news for months straight , but the details such as exactley why they did what they did and those type of things still seems to elude everybody (or at least me). I think its pretty sad how the media blamed doom , natural born killers and kmfdm for there bad decisions . The news said they had a websight but took it down before reporting on it . I also believe that its wasnt facism that fuelled them because there arnt very many minorities in that part of town and only one black kid was shot . I believe the duo never felt that they lived up to thier potential for popularity and were at odds with you know the jocks and the cool kids so they took it out on anybody they could killing whoever they could find . That seems to be the popular consensus here . Doesnt everybody experience this in high school ? But we dont go around killing everybody over it .
Its pretty sad I know every detail about them where they worked , who there girlfriends were , what kind of music they listened to , who there friends were , where they got there guns and how they made there weapons . The who , what , where , when ....but not the why . I dont think anybody truly knows or else they would have reported it .
Its pretty sad I know every detail about them where they worked , who there girlfriends were , what kind of music they listened to , who there friends were , where they got there guns and how they made there weapons . The who , what , where , when ....but not the why . I dont think anybody truly knows or else they would have reported it .
Originally posted by Xavier@Dec. 29 2002, 6:54 am
I think its pretty sad how the media blamed doom , natural born killers and kmfdm for there bad decisions .
Yeah, it's pretty f'in sad when people don't take responsibility for themselves. The real problem is school bullies who pick on people for being who they are and parents who don't keep track of their kids.
In related topics I saw a local news report a week or so ago about GTA: Vice City and other violent video games. Among the ones mentioned was Duke 3D. This just shows their total lack of knowledge on the subject. Are kids still playing a game that's gotta be what, at least 7-8 years old by now, right? But I'll stop there before starting another endless debate on the impact of violent media on our children.
SkankinMonkey
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Good movie, Moore appears to be rather fake in some parts, but the facts are out there even with his sensationalism.
Oddly, the movie has little to with the Columbine tragedy. More with the problem with America. And yeah, Moore has come under fire recently for his integrity with the film. Nevertheless, it does make you think. Did anyone see one of his earlier films, I think it was called "Roger and Me"? A tale of big business ruining his hometown of Flynt, Michigan.
Originally posted by Quadriflax@Dec. 28 2002, 11:06 am
Among the ones mentioned was Duke 3D. This just shows their total lack of knowledge on the subject. Are kids still playing a game that's gotta be what, at least 7-8 years old by now, right? But I'll stop there before starting another endless debate on the impact of violent media on our children.
I saw this too, it was the year 2002 video game report card...
It was all on CSPAN for everyone to watch, they showed games like GTA4, BMXXX, Duke3D,etc.. It really is fairly pathetic that they couldn't accumlate a better list of violent games and that they had to bring back a game that was produced such a long time ago...They didn't even mention State Of Emergency which I find worse than GTA.
After all it was called the 2002 video game report card NOT 1996-2002 " " ". It still will do nothing accept get the annoying people at stores to check your ID for M rated games and might even spawn a new rating system. But the game companies know that violence sells, just look at GTA3/4...
I found the little "brief history of america" interlude to be quite amusing. It looked like it was from South Park but I wasn't sure. I'm no a fan of the show. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
Digging up an old post , I rented this movie .
Michael Moore of does much of the story from his home town because hes a fatbody and lazy .
Parts of the movie are goofy , like asking the hollywood police to arrest the polluters because he cant see the sign , and interviewing his cousin or someone at the bar behind his house , because he mixed stryofoam and gasoline in a barrel like the anarchist cookbook told him to .
The movie did have some good points and raised many good questions , but not to many that are original or things that I havent wondered or asked myself in the last few weeks/years before seeing the movie .
Good job you got kmart a bankrupting company to stop selling ammo , exactly what this will stop or change I don't know .
In all the movie/documentary needed more answers and less questions .
It was also wishy washey and to sensation , like his other movies .
2 out of 5 stars . :smash
Michael Moore of does much of the story from his home town because hes a fatbody and lazy .
Parts of the movie are goofy , like asking the hollywood police to arrest the polluters because he cant see the sign , and interviewing his cousin or someone at the bar behind his house , because he mixed stryofoam and gasoline in a barrel like the anarchist cookbook told him to .
The movie did have some good points and raised many good questions , but not to many that are original or things that I havent wondered or asked myself in the last few weeks/years before seeing the movie .
Good job you got kmart a bankrupting company to stop selling ammo , exactly what this will stop or change I don't know .
In all the movie/documentary needed more answers and less questions .
It was also wishy washey and to sensation , like his other movies .
2 out of 5 stars . :smash
Originally posted by Xavier@Sep 7, 2004 @ 05:55 AM
Digging up an old post , I rented this movie .
Michael Moore of does much of the story from his home town because hes a fatbody and lazy .
Hmmm... Digging up one VERY old post at this point. Two years, here Xavier...
Ya don't think it is focused on his home town because that might be what inspires him to make these films and write his books? His first film was about how GM closing the plant down in Flint, MI drove the town into poverty. BfC seemed, to me, to be inspired primarily by 6 year old girl getting shot in his hometown. And the most powerful moments of Fahrenheit 9/11 were those dealing with the mother who lost her son to Iraq, a woman from his hometown who contacted him, not the other way around.
Yes, BfC was full of Moore's trademark humor and stunts. He is a satirist. He has more in common with George Carlin than Errol Morris. (Bet'cha didn't know George Carlin considers himself a conservative now.) And yes, I felt a bit discomforted by the scenes with Charleton Heston, now knowing about his alzheimers (which wasn't public at the time Moore pulled that stunt). But that doesn't change the fact that Moore's goal here was to get people talking, to spark debate. It is unfortunate that people seem more preoccupied with debating the validity of his (documented) sources rather than the true issue at hand.
I have no problem with his sources , but again his questions are the same that all 13 year olds ponder at 3 oclock in the morning at Denny's . I know I was 15 years ago . No I didn't know George was conservative ...but he asks much better questions , also when he tries to do somthing funny it makes you laugh .
The movie did have content , thats why it got two stars , good interviews and I liked how the U.S was compared to Canada . In many ways I evny them .
I rented the movie last night , thats why I dug it back up again .
2 quick points
1 What has Moore done for Flint ...besides whore it off . I wonder if Moore has donated any money to it . For example given that school a real track .
2 What good is K-mart stopping selling bullets gonna do . Espicially since it shut down 1/3 of its stores anyways .
The movie did have content , thats why it got two stars , good interviews and I liked how the U.S was compared to Canada . In many ways I evny them .
I rented the movie last night , thats why I dug it back up again .
2 quick points
1 What has Moore done for Flint ...besides whore it off . I wonder if Moore has donated any money to it . For example given that school a real track .
2 What good is K-mart stopping selling bullets gonna do . Espicially since it shut down 1/3 of its stores anyways .
In all the movie/documentary needed more answers and less questions .
Well, you can always listen to politicians. Seems they usually have all the answers, and no questions. :banana
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell
Originally posted by ExCyber@Sep 7, 2004 @ 02:05 PM
Well, you can always listen to politicians. Seems they usually have all the answers, and no questions. :banana
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." --
Good point but people are always going to not like the answer no matter what it is . My uncle used to say "people always have to have somthing to bitch about "
Not as fancy as your Bertrand Russell quote but just as true .
This reminds me of a reporter who was going around questioning protesters days before the invasion started . Most all coherent people agreed that Sadam was a madman , Iraq wasnt an ideal place to live and past actions of bombings and sanctions didnt work and that it was a problem along time in the works . But when asked what they would do if they were in charge the common reply was "I don't know I'm not a politician ."
I dont want to make this into an Iraq thread , it's old so just please keep on the topic of BFC . I was just making an example .
I think the K-Mart thing was more about making a point that it is possible to put political pressure on corporations in order to cause them to change their policies (even though Moore didn't expect them to yield). With the rise of big corporations all over the world, political action involving them is going to be just as important as addressing the goverment in the future. But, as far as what was actually accomplished, I agree, it doesn't change much. WRT your Flint question, I have no idea. You'd think he would have tried to do something, but I'm not sure what he has done there.
Moore's main theory in the movie seems to be that it's the culture of fear in the US that causes (or gives the illusion of) much of the violence that occurs here. I don't think he's really against gun ownership in and of itself, although he may be in favor of stricter gun control laws. I don't really agree with that idea, although I do think the 'fear factor' is used to manipulate people - particularly the terrorist threat level and the like.
Moore's main theory in the movie seems to be that it's the culture of fear in the US that causes (or gives the illusion of) much of the violence that occurs here. I don't think he's really against gun ownership in and of itself, although he may be in favor of stricter gun control laws. I don't really agree with that idea, although I do think the 'fear factor' is used to manipulate people - particularly the terrorist threat level and the like.
Moore's main theory in the movie seems to be that it's the culture of fear in the US that causes (or gives the illusion of) much of the violence that occurs here. I don't think he's really against gun ownership in and of itself, although he may be in favor of stricter gun control laws.
Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of the Heston ambush either, but I didn't see it as him browbeating him for owning a gun, but trying to get him to admit that he owns a gun because he's afraid - not necessarily afraid of anything in particular, just afraid. Heston wasn't playing along; being the head of the NRA he pretty much stuck to the approach of "the Constitution allows it; why shouldn't I own a gun?".
In middle/junior high school is when the "bullying" started. The worst time of my live. I lived in fear and dread for three years. Some bullies had threatened off-school physical violence. Out of fear, I collected pocket knives and jackknives and crossbows I found at garage sales and flea markets. For a while, anytime I even went to play in my own back yard, I'd have a couple hidden under a log somewhere incase some of the bullies came over to hurt me. Luckily they never did.
The term "bullying" doesn't do it justice. It was nonstop constant everyday physical and mental torture. Every day at the busstop I'd get pushed, insulted, have rocks hurled at my head. Every day on the bus if I wasn't able to get an empty seat, I had to sit in the isle, since noone would let me sit with them, and people would constantly kick me from behind. If I did get a seat, stuff would get thrown at me or they'd hit me from behind the seat or steal hats and gloves and stuff. Every time I went to my locker I'd get shoved and insulted. Every time I walked down the halls between classes, at some point I'd encounter a group of bad kids. All day during class they'd insult me in the back of the room and pass nasty notes to me.
The only thing that kept me sane was my ability to vent my emotions in alternative mediums such as violent, bloody movies and video games. These things *prevented* real-life violence, they did *not* cause it. What causes real-life violence are the awful parents who neglect or abuse their kids, example poor behavoir in the home (drinking, drugs, domestic violence, yelling), and don't discipline or care about their kids.
Everywhere I go, whenever I see parents with their kids, the parents are far more often than not demonstrating poor, if not piss-poor, parenting skills. And what's worse is that the people who should not be having children because they are either horrible parents, or are potentially good parents but are simply economically incapable of supporting children, are the ones that are having 4-10 kids (most out of wedlock). Our entire civilization is doomed. Evolution isn't working. The smart and nice are having few kids, while those without the capacity to properly care for their kids are reproducing like rabbits. These are of course generalizations.
JMT.
The term "bullying" doesn't do it justice. It was nonstop constant everyday physical and mental torture. Every day at the busstop I'd get pushed, insulted, have rocks hurled at my head. Every day on the bus if I wasn't able to get an empty seat, I had to sit in the isle, since noone would let me sit with them, and people would constantly kick me from behind. If I did get a seat, stuff would get thrown at me or they'd hit me from behind the seat or steal hats and gloves and stuff. Every time I went to my locker I'd get shoved and insulted. Every time I walked down the halls between classes, at some point I'd encounter a group of bad kids. All day during class they'd insult me in the back of the room and pass nasty notes to me.
The only thing that kept me sane was my ability to vent my emotions in alternative mediums such as violent, bloody movies and video games. These things *prevented* real-life violence, they did *not* cause it. What causes real-life violence are the awful parents who neglect or abuse their kids, example poor behavoir in the home (drinking, drugs, domestic violence, yelling), and don't discipline or care about their kids.
Everywhere I go, whenever I see parents with their kids, the parents are far more often than not demonstrating poor, if not piss-poor, parenting skills. And what's worse is that the people who should not be having children because they are either horrible parents, or are potentially good parents but are simply economically incapable of supporting children, are the ones that are having 4-10 kids (most out of wedlock). Our entire civilization is doomed. Evolution isn't working. The smart and nice are having few kids, while those without the capacity to properly care for their kids are reproducing like rabbits. These are of course generalizations.
JMT.
Jedi,
Sounds familiar. To this day, eight years after getting out of school, I still have two baseball bats and a katana sword in my car, plus a knife on my person at all times.
I hate guns, though. My best friend's dad was killed in an armed robbery, shot and killed by two kids robbing a convienence store. They got the gun out of one of their parents' desk. Case in point for stronger gun laws. If the law had required that the gun have a lock on it, a lock that only the parent would have had the key to, the 15 year old kid would have been far less likely to have used it to kill my friend's dad and steal $220 out of the cash register. I'm not saying that guns need outright banned, but the laws need focused differently. A law requiring trigger locks would not violate the NRA's interpretation of the second amendment.
Some interesting info about Moore and the NRA though... Moore has stated (check out old news posts on his website) that the reason he joined the NRA in the first place was that he wanted to run for its presidency (after Heston got it) and change the NRA from the inside. He wanted it to become an orginization that supported PROPER gun ownership. The common citizen does not need to own an automatic assault rifle, Bambi the Deer doesn't require 100 bullets per minute to be taken down. The common citizen should have the right to own a simple rifle and/or a simple handgun. One trigger pull=one bullet. Moore wanted to to lead the NRA in support for little things like trigger locks, laws about locked gun cabinets, etc. He's made it clear that he supports the right to own a gun. He just believes that the NRA has taken it too far in the wrong direction.
Sounds familiar. To this day, eight years after getting out of school, I still have two baseball bats and a katana sword in my car, plus a knife on my person at all times.
I hate guns, though. My best friend's dad was killed in an armed robbery, shot and killed by two kids robbing a convienence store. They got the gun out of one of their parents' desk. Case in point for stronger gun laws. If the law had required that the gun have a lock on it, a lock that only the parent would have had the key to, the 15 year old kid would have been far less likely to have used it to kill my friend's dad and steal $220 out of the cash register. I'm not saying that guns need outright banned, but the laws need focused differently. A law requiring trigger locks would not violate the NRA's interpretation of the second amendment.
Some interesting info about Moore and the NRA though... Moore has stated (check out old news posts on his website) that the reason he joined the NRA in the first place was that he wanted to run for its presidency (after Heston got it) and change the NRA from the inside. He wanted it to become an orginization that supported PROPER gun ownership. The common citizen does not need to own an automatic assault rifle, Bambi the Deer doesn't require 100 bullets per minute to be taken down. The common citizen should have the right to own a simple rifle and/or a simple handgun. One trigger pull=one bullet. Moore wanted to to lead the NRA in support for little things like trigger locks, laws about locked gun cabinets, etc. He's made it clear that he supports the right to own a gun. He just believes that the NRA has taken it too far in the wrong direction.
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