FMV framerate and quality?

[Tindo@heart]

Does anyone know how many framerates the FMV games use?

Also, do copied or burned games have the same quality FMV as the original?

I heard that FMV games should be burned at 4x, but my burner's lowest setting is 8x for CDR. I'm not sure I understand why I should burn at 4X, if higher speeds burn fine.

Does burn speeds affect FMV quality?

What are the benefits of burning at lower speeds?

 

[Gaz_2_k]

Originally posted by Tindo@heart@May 2, 2003 @ 04:26 AM

Does burn speeds affect FMV quality?

unsure.........

What are the benefits of burning at lower speeds?

more time to do other things....(play games, watch TV....or have a cuppa-tea!)

 

[Curtis]

Burning games with lots of FMV at a high speed can cause the FMV to break up somewhat. The Sega CD - using an older CD drive - can be particularly picky about this. The Saturn is less finicky about this...

 

[Jaded God]

Originally posted by Curtis@May 2, 2003 @ 10:35 AM

Burning games with lots of FMV at a high speed can cause the FMV to break up somewhat. The Sega CD - using an older CD drive - can be particularly picky about this. The Saturn is less finicky about this...

Curtis makes a good point about the segacd being a little picky.. it is.

It also depends a lot on your pc and your burner and if it is capable of producing quality burns at higher speeds.

If you have a plextor or the same kind of quality burner it should work, in fact get this... I have to burn at 12x with my 12/10/32A plexwriter for psx games to run smoothly and not have choppy fmv. 4x for saturn, and 1x for segacd. If I burn at anything under 12x for psx with my plexwriter it doesnt matter what speed, it will be choppy.

Yet on the other hand... If I use my liteon 40x CDRW and burn at 2x for a psx game its fine... It's all about quality.

Generally you should burn at 1x or 2x though for safest results.

 

[Spartikcus]

SO I SPENT ALL THAT MONEY FOR A 48x BURNER!

Oh well I will have to find other things to do while burning at 4 speed.

 

[racketboy]

Originally posted by Spartikcus@May 2, 2003 @ 11:01 PM

SO I SPENT ALL THAT MONEY FOR A 48x BURNER!

Oh well I will have to find other things to do while burning at 4 speed.

i know -- sucks don't it

 

[Curtis]

Well since you'd be hard pressed to find anything slower than a 48x drive - and since they're cheap as chips these days, I'd say it wasn't such a bad investment...

 

[MasterAkumaMatata]

48X? ah, fooey! <_<

 

[gameboy900]

Originally posted by Tindo@heart@May 1, 2003 @ 11:26 PM

Does anyone know how many framerates the FMV games use?

Also, do copied or burned games have the same quality FMV as the original?

I heard that FMV games should be burned at 4x, but my burner's lowest setting is 8x for CDR. I'm not sure I understand why I should burn at 4X, if higher speeds burn fine.

Does burn speeds affect FMV quality?

What are the benefits of burning at lower speeds?

Burn speed affects EVERYTHING. The only reason why FMV's show it most is because they generally are not error corrected when played. When the drive has trouble loading a executable or image it may actually try several times if it has problems. But with FMV's there is no time to retry reading so it just skips the bad stuff (frames) and moves on. At higher burn speeds the accuracy of the pits and groves that are made by the laser decreases. Any burn made at 40x will ALWAYS be inferior to any burn at 1X. The only reason you never notice anything (even though there are rereads even on new modern drives) is that with data re reading it is generally not a problem since you can wait for each chunk as much as you want. Faster burn speeds make it harder for the drive to read the data. Newer drives can easily cope with this but older ones have troubles. Hence why the older a system the slower you tend to need to burn the disc.

</RANT>

 

[Alexvrb]

This all sounds nuts to me. I can't vouch for model 1 SCDs, but for my model 2 SCD and my Saturn, I can burn at 16X (at least, havent tried higher) without any problems whatsoever with my 24x10x40 Lite-On burner. I've heard that 3DO was really picky and you had to burn at 2-4X regardless. I always burn at 16X in DAO/96 with Nero (unless forced to do otherwise). It also may depend on the media you use, I currently am using Fujifilm. But hey I guess if it doesnt work for you, you just can't do it that fast. Regardless, 16X is plenty fast for CDs, and I'm not going to replace my burner anytime soon.

 

[sizone]

does anyone have any concrete evidence of this?

think about it, you're making a digital copy. 000101001001 is going to be 000101001001 whether you burn it at 2x or 200x.

 

[Zero 9]

I have no problems at all burning at 52x, although it only reaches just over 48 on my 48x media.

Innovative SMART-BURN technology to automatically check media quality and set limit to burning speed to ensure successful writing sessions & data retainability ( *1 )

 

[gameboy900]

Originally posted by sizone@May 3, 2003 @ 02:17 PM

does anyone have any concrete evidence of this?

think about it, you're making a digital copy. 000101001001 is going to be 000101001001 whether you burn it at 2x or 200x.

Umm...if you really want to get techincal about it a CD is in fact analog. Nothing in the real world is digital. THERE IS ALWAYS SOME DEGREE OF VARIANCE IN EVERYTHING. When you burn a cd the laser has to turn off and on at very precise time intervals. Good drives are much better at making this timing that crappy drives. The reason it all works anyway is becuase there is ALOT of redundancy built into the media. Things take up several times more space than they really need to on CD's (this is why DC disc can be the 1GB size even though the drives use standard CD drive components). Just because the data is DIGITAL doesn't mean the way it's STORED is digital. Older drives have more trouble reading media that was burned at higher speeds than newer drives....because they were never meant to do so. Also keep in mind that back in the day CD drive techonology was greatly inferior to what we have now. They didn't have slow CD-ROM drives back then because they wanted to you know.

So basically the higher the burn speed the lower the quality of the data storage on the disc. Think of it this way. How does your handwriting look better, when you are slowly trying to write or rushing and scratching stuff on as fast as you can. Same thing with burning CD's. The ONLY reason your 48X burns can be read at all is that modern drives are designed to filter out the poor data formating that is created at such high speeds in addition to the extreme amount of redundancy in CD's (this is also why scratches have to be rather severe before they fuck things up). Older drives are quite inferior and cannot as accurately read the data so they are more prone to misreading these fast burns.

Any more questions?

 

[emazur]

What happens if you copy a disc arleady burned at 40x, and copy it again at 4x? Better, worse, same?

 

[antime]

Every generation introduces errors.

 

[Alexvrb]

Originally posted by gameboy900@May 4, 2003 @ 04:14 AM

The ONLY reason your 48X burns can be read at all is that modern drives are designed to filter out the poor data formating that is created at such high speeds in addition to the extreme amount of redundancy in CD's (this is also why scratches have to be rather severe before they fuck things up).

Thats not entirely true. A good burner with good media can write at high speeds without screwing it up real bad. The Sega CD has a pretty ancient drive and can often read CDs written at high speeds no problem. If you find that with your burner and CDRs you cannot burn at high speeds, dont. I've recently burned at 24X, and my friend burns his SCD games at 40X. Last I checked those drives weren't designed with this in mind.

 

[gameboy900]

Originally posted by antime@May 4, 2003 @ 04:53 AM

Every generation introduces errors.

Not true with CD's copies. Since the data is in fact moved digitally between the original and the copy you don't get generation quality problems. Of course if the drive misread a bit or two from the original then that error will move over too.

 

[gameboy900]

Originally posted by Alexvrb@May 4, 2003 @ 06:43 PM

Thats not entirely true. A good burner with good media can write at high speeds without screwing it up real bad. The Sega CD has a pretty ancient drive and can often read CDs written at high speeds no problem. If you find that with your burner and CDRs you cannot burn at high speeds, dont. I've recently burned at 24X, and my friend burns his SCD games at 40X. Last I checked those drives weren't designed with this in mind.

Like you said a good burner and good media make a difrence only because they increase the quality of a high speed burn to levels that the SCD can tolerate. If you used crap media that tolerance is increased and you have a higher chance of getting a "bad" burn. In general modern drives have gotten to a point where with moderate quality media (not the bottom of the barrel crap stuff) the discs will play fine in all drives regardless of speed. It's mostly the older 4x to 16x drives that hadn't improved their quality enough at the high speeds for these older drives to read properly.

 

[Curtis]

Originally posted by gameboy900+May 5, 2003 @ 07:18 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gameboy900 @ May 5, 2003 @ 07:18 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-antime@May 4, 2003 @ 04:53 AM

Every generation introduces errors.

Not true with CD's copies. Since the data is in fact moved digitally between the original and the copy you don't get generation quality problems. Of course if the drive misread a bit or two from the original then that error will move over too. [/b][/quote]

So what are you saying the difference is?

With every copy you make (or every generation) errors are introduced. The errors may come from any source - be they from read errors (or error correction), vibrations, power surges or sags - the result is always the same. You get mre errors with each subsiquent copy.

The point antime was making is that you can't magically improve the quality of a recording by using a lower speed.

 

[gameboy900]

Originally posted by Curtis@May 4, 2003 @ 08:53 PM

So what are you saying the difference is?

With every copy you make (or every generation) errors are introduced. The errors may come from any source - be they from read errors (or error correction), vibrations, power surges or sags - the result is always the same. You get more errors with each subsequent copy.

The point antime was making is that you can't magically improve the quality of a recording by using a lower speed.

The point is that barring any unusual events (solar flares, sudden power surges, etc) it IS possible to improve a copy if you are sure the data you read from the original is correct (reading it several times is generally sufficient for this).

Once the data is stored on a HD (and baring any more fuck ups while it's there) the new copy will not have as much (drive and media dependent of course) accuracy errors as the original did. (Keep in mind that a burn will NEVER be as accurate as an original pressed CD).

So the point is if you can verify that the data read from a poor original burned disc is acurate (multiple reads and verifications normally is sufficient) it is entirely possible to have a BETTER new burned copy if you use a better drive and media.

With modern drives and good media the diffrences are negligible but with older drives it can make a big enough difrence to affect things.