Idea for a 2D port: Oddworld Abe's Oddysee using R.E.L.I.V.E. engine?

I honestly wasn't trying to put you down. it's just really frustrating that the answer of "how many palettes can the Saturn do" is such a simple thing to actually find out, no need for guessing of burning tokens to get an answer that is completely wrong. And now you know for sure, because I explained it. Good luck with your project.
@nando:
Yes, don't get me wrong, I was mostly frustrated by myself other than something else.
I meant it when I said I needed a good night of sleep and a proper look on it. I should take the time to investigate and find the real problem and solution.
I had to leave for my flight and I knew I would have no more access to my Saturn for over a month, so I tried to finish up too many things at the same time, which only had very poor results because of the way I did it. I will do better next time (and more importantly, will verify what I write here if it was originated by an AI).
My bad on that, thanks again for caring enough to reply and correct my mistakes.
 
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@nando:
Yes, don't get me wrong, I was mostly frustrated by myself other than something else.
I meant it when I said I needed a good night of sleep and a proper look on it. I should take the time to investigate and find the real problem and solution.
I had to leave for my flight and I knew I would have no more access to my Saturn for over a month, so I tried to finish up too many things at the same time, which only had very poor results because of the way I did it. I will do better next time (and more importantly, will verify what I write here if it was originated by an AI).
My bad on that, thanks again for caring enough to reply and correct my mistakes.
If you have questions that seem like they should have obvious answers, honestly just ask. There is discord too, and Saturn has halfway decent documentation. VDP2 is the most complicated (almost 500 pages) but if you know what the question is, you can probably find the answer there. The exception being that the descriptions are not always straight forward or easy to understand 😀
 
If you have questions that seem like they should have obvious answers, honestly just ask. There is discord too, and Saturn has halfway decent documentation. VDP2 is the most complicated (almost 500 pages) but if you know what the question is, you can probably find the answer there. The exception being that the descriptions are not always straight forward or easy to understand 😀
Yes, I'm on the discord also, and have the official sega saturn developer cd iso mounted on my computer.
Honestly I have zero excuse not to look it up.
The problem was more about knowing what to look for in this situation, and the final rush to get my plane. But hey, lesson learned. Thanks.
It also seems that I was looking in the wrong direction the entire time, as there are plenty animation / textures poorly converted / stored in the current version, such as shadows for example. Clearly needs some tuning. Carlos point was still helpful and helped me sort out one of the issue.
I'll list, investigate and solve them one by one when I have the time to.
 
Hi guys, I've been wrapping my head around the CRAM issue and the stuttering, and I think that we could look at it from a mixed 4-BPP/8-BPP pipeline perspective combined with a very surgical use of the SCU-DMA for key triggers.
Abe and the main backgrounds definitely need 8-BPP, but maybe we can crunch all secondary assets down to 4-BPP. Stuff like shadows, portal effects, or explosions could easily live in 16 colors with some good old-school dithering, saving a massive amount of palette banks.
As for the SCU-DMA, instead of triggering transfers chaotically, we could restrict its scope to four precise scenarios:
1-SCU DMA Level 0 bursts used exclusively during flip-screen transitions, dumping the background from Work RAM to the VDP2 VRAM (inactive layer) right before Abe hits the screen boundary.
2-Handling Abe's heavy action states via sprite streaming into the VDP1 VRAM during V-blank, so we don't clog the memory with all his frames at once.
3-Mirroring the VDP1 command tables in Work RAM High and performing an indirect DMA transfer per frame to VRAM, keeping both SH-2 cores completely free for AI and collision checks.
4-And for the palette overlapping, updating color data directly from Work RAM to the CRAM palette banks using DMA synced with V-blank.
Sounds like a hot take and a lot of asset management on the PC side first, but maybe it's a viable way to bypass the hardware limits. What do you guys think?
 
I'll check that, thanks. The palette overlapping is fixed, and so are most animations (no more black and white corruption).
I still have to fix the moving barrel rectangle animations, and implement some shadows with saturn hardware (right now, they're 8bpp and using ram space for nothing, just dumbly converted from original format), then I'll see how to optimize everything, ease up ram usage, and adding up the audio.
 
I'll check that, thanks. The palette overlapping is fixed, and so are most animations (no more black and white corruption).
I still have to fix the moving barrel rectangle animations, and implement some shadows with saturn hardware (right now, they're 8bpp and using ram space for nothing, just dumbly converted from original format), then I'll see how to optimize everything, ease up ram usage, and adding up the audio.
Hi N0rt0N85,
That’s fantastic news! Hearing that you already fixed the palette overlapping and the black and white animation corruption is amazing. You are ironing out those bugs fast even while traveling! Handling the shadows natively through Saturn’s hardware instead of wasting RAM with raw 8bpp conversions is definitely the right call, it will free up so much headroom for the upcoming audio engine.
I'm working on a setup right now where I have my raw videos in uncompressed .avi, alongside the audios, backgrounds, and sprites already converted into Saturn-compliant formats for my first level. I would love to send these files over to you via Google Drive if they can help you with your asset testing and pipeline development! Seeing how you map out the RAM tiers is pure gold, as I'm facing those exact same file management challenges at the moment.
Please keep up the amazing work! Enjoy the rest of your trip in August, and we’ll be right here eagerly waiting to see how this engine behaves on real hardware at the end of the month. History is being fixed right here.
Cheers from Spain, you are an absolute crack!
 

What's new since July 20​

Colors finally behave (July 21–27)​

The Saturn has very little dedicated color memory, and for weeks characters and objects had been stealing each other's palettes: Mudokons flashing wrong colors, levers turning odd shades, elevator barrels going dark.
  • Every recurring character in the first level fits into a tiny shared color budget with zero quality loss, so Abe, the Mudokons and the Sligs now get permanently reserved color slots, their colors are correct and stable instead of fighting for space (the idea suggested by @carlos24_).
  • Objects like levers and props no longer inherit the colors of whatever was on screen before them.
  • Background animations (the elevator chain and platform) no longer flash black and white.
  • The elevator barrels got their real colors back: the game was guessing how many colors each image needed and guessing wrong, so the barrels shared a palette with the pull-rope and lost. Now the game measures what each image actually uses.

Cleaner screen transitions (July 29)​

When walking from one screen to the next, leftover foreground scenery from the previous screen used to hang on the screen until the new one finished loading. It's now wiped instantly the moment the transition starts.

Real shadows (July 29–31)​

Characters' shadows had been drawn as solid dark blobs, all the same size.
  • First pass: a checkerboard-dither trick made them roughly 50% see-through, but it looked ugly.
  • Final version: the shadows now use a native Saturn hardware feature (VDP2 shadow function) that genuinely darkens the background beneath them: smooth, truly translucent, and costing essentially nothing in performance. They also scale properly: a Slig's shadow matches a Slig, shadows shrink as you jump, and they clip correctly at ledge edges, just like on the PlayStation.

The sideways-Mudokon glitch (July 29)​

Mudokons facing back would visibly jitter a few pixels sideways off their shadow. Cause: when the Saturn mirrors a sprite, some invisible padding pixels got mirrored to the wrong side, pushing the character over. Flipped sprites are now anchored from the other edge, so characters sit exactly on their shadows in both directions.

️ Crash-proofing (July 31)​

Wesker's real console crashed after ~51 minutes of play. The cause was tracked down from a photo of the crash screen: the engine occasionally asks an animation for a frame that no longer exists in memory, and one unguarded path let that kill the whole machine. Two fixes:
  • Any bad animation frame now safely disappears for a single frame instead of crashing the console.
  • A memory bookkeeping bug (a "freed but not forgotten" buffer that could silently corrupt other data) was closed.

More characters on screen, no more tearing (Aug 1–2)​

The biggest fix of the period. Two long-standing complaints: Abe's sprite visibly tearing when animations change, and sprites vanishing on busy screens (like the lower elevator room), fell together after a deep audit of the Saturn's sprite library:
  • It turned out the system had been silently deleting any sprite past the 40th, and deleting the closest ones first, which is exactly Abe and the enemies. The limit is now 60, with the underlying memory laid out the way the hardware manual actually requires (the old layout was quietly corrupting itself past 43 sprites, the real cause of an older mystery crash).
  • The tearing happened because the game sometimes redraws a character's image twice in the same tick, and the second redraw landed on the exact image the hardware was still busy displaying. Fixed: confirmed gone by eye and by counters (178 tear events per session → 2).
  • Along the way, ~4 KB of scarce memory was reclaimed by measuring (rather than assuming) how much a legacy reserve actually needed: the answer was zero.
Still to fix: the elevator chain is not optimized and continues to glitch.

SOUND IS ON (Aug 3)​

The port is no longer silent: sound effects and music now actually play (confirmed in the emulator). This was the biggest missing piece of the whole project.
  • The Saturn's dedicated sound chip is now driven directly, with all 32 of its voices mapped to the game's audio engine, including the same voice-recycling logic the original game used, so busy scenes steal the least important sound, not a random one.
  • All the game's audio samples are converted offline into the Saturn's native format. The sound bank for the first level squeezes into the chip's tiny memory (99.7% full!) with a trick: every voice line is kept 100% untouched, while less critical effects are gently downsampled with a proper filter so they still sound clean.
  • The music clock now ticks, which means the game's adaptive soundtrack works. The music can react to what's happening on screen, like on PlayStation.
  • The pitch math was rewritten for the Saturn's CPU (which has no floating-point unit): note pitches are now computed with fast integer math accurate to less than 1/100th of a semitone.
  • Three independent reviews of the code caught and fixed a batch of subtle bugs before they could ever be heard: sounds getting cut short after pitch changes, a slow memory leak in the sound chip's RAM, a screeching tail when a voice was stolen, and a rare race condition at startup.

Again, thanks @slygamer, @Wesker for the hardware tests and @carlos24_ for ideas and emulator tests.

My attempts to create native proper lightings failed so far (green and orange lights on platforms and doors, for example), and still plenty of bugs to go, but I'm happy with the progress.
 
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Here's the update video, thanks to @slygamer's hardware capture:


EDIT:
Disclaimer: As always, feel free to correct me, as it might me help understand better and maybe fix some bugs. I'm still exploring the hardware, I might miss something or say something plain wrong. The following no source of truth value, only my current understanding of things applied to the port.

Tethys Odysseus - Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee on Sega Saturn - update (4–10 August)
Note that the video covers a slightly wider window than this post. It goes back to
late July, so it also shows the audio and sprite-ceiling work from the last update.

Since August 3rd the port went from "the level runs" to "the level looks like the game".
Below is what changed, plus the two things I got wrong.

── DISPLAY: NATIVE 240 LINES ─────────────────────────────

The renderer had been running 320x224, with the vertical pre-scale applied
NEAREST-NEIGHBOUR at 14/15 — one scanline in fifteen was deleted, and which one
shifted as a sprite moved vertically. That is a shimmer in motion, not a uniform
softening. It is now 320x240: 1:1 vertically with the PSX original, no resampling at
all, horizontal still a clean integer 2:1 from the 640-wide PC art.

Eleven sites had to move atomically for that (the pack contract is mirrored in Python
and C++), and a twelfth escaped the platform layer entirely: the streaming CAM path
validates the Bits header independently, inside RELIVE, and still demanded 224 rows.
First build booted straight into a fatal. A dimension contract that wide needs a
literal sweep across BOTH repos.

── WHAT PAID FOR IT: THE VDP1 TAIL ───────────────────────

Back at S5, 217,088 bytes of CPU-only tables (the AO VAG table 147,456, the sound-entry table 36,864, the renderer's CLUT mirror 32,768) had been exiled into the tail of VDP1 VRAM, because LWRAM was fully committed to the resource heap. That was always a debt, and it was charged to the texture heap: 229,376 usable bytes out of a possible 450,560.

A LIFO tail-trim: SRL's texture allocator is apure bump allocator with no per-id free, so retired slots ARE the free list, and
42-61% of every byte ever claimed was sitting in them. Everything above the highest id held by a LIVE slot is retired by construction and comes back in one call. No search, no adjacency test. Measured peak went 281 -> ~185 KiB.

Consequence: 240 lines fit under the 256 KiB no-cart ceiling with 58 KiB spare. That killed the dual-pack / cart-tier / disc-fork plan outright. One pack, one image.

── CONVERTER: TWO FIDELITY WINS, ZERO RUNTIME COST ───────

1. Anim chunk compaction. The converter halves every cel for Saturn but was keeping each frame at its PSX offset and zero-filling the slack. Measured over the converted R1.LVL: 38.7% of ALL Anim payload bytes: 952,656 of them, ABEBSIC.BAN alone 93,512, was padding, and the ResourceManager pays for it twice (resident block + contiguous stage). Repacking end to end and rewriting every cross-reference took the R1 pack from 7.66 to 6.59 MB. Lossless: all 4202 frames of 219 chunks re-decode bit-identical.

2. Stopped decimating actor cels. The 2:1 horizontal pre-scale was nearest-neighbour ON PALETTE INDICES. Indices are indeed meaningless to filter. Colours are not.
Dropping every other column discarded a DIFFERENT colour on 37.77% of opaque texels (1,479,863 measured). It now averages the covered columns in COLOUR space and snaps the result back into the SAME palette. 0 bytes of VRAM, 0 fill, 0 runtime code, 0
display-mode risk. This is plausibly most of what read as "the Saturn version looks halved", and it was available all along behind a comment that was true about indices and wrong about pixels.

── THE LED MARQUEE FINALLY RENDERS ───────────────────────

Prior note: LCD text is still bugged and have poor performances.

LCDFONT.FNT was the one resource the converter skipped, so the LCD factories had been stubbed since S4 after a null AliveFont sent DrawString polys into BIOS ROM.

French and Spanish marquee text are extracted offline from the localized executable by signature search (the two LCD palettes that follow the table), not by hardcoded offset. The tutorial strings also name real Saturn buttons now: Input_GetButtonString had been a stub returning "" since P1, so 12 of the 37 messages read "To jump, press ."

One good bug from that work: the French disc went black at boot. Root cause was a single signed char. String_FormatString reads the marquee as plain `char`, this port forces -fsigned-char, so every CP437 accent arrives NEGATIVE, fails `>= ' '`, falls into
the button-glyph branch, and `in_char - 6` truncated back to char turns 0x82 into +124. That indexes a 53-entry table at 124, lands in unrelated .rodata, and strcpy runs unbounded into a 512-byte buffer inside the ~30 KB HWRAM pool. No fatal, no exception screen, a heap smash is not a CPU exception.

── COLOUR: THE TINT CHANNEL ──────────────────────────────

Two reported defects, one cause: characters were not being hidden by dark columns, and Mudokons were the same colour as Abe. AO darkens AND tints an actor by modulating its PRIMITIVE RGB, and our textured path read that RGB nowhere.

Abe and the Mudokons genuinely SHARE one CLUT in the game data, so the tint is the ONLY thing that tells them apart, dropping it made them identical by construction.

VDP1 gouraud cannot stand in here: in a colour-BANK mode it offsets the colour CODE, i.e. the palette INDEX, which on an arbitrary AO clut samples unrelated colours (this is the red errata on VDP1 manual p.93 in the Kronos-corrected scans). So the palette itself is modulated, which is effectively what the PSX hardware did. Sized from the level data rather than from a gauge: R1 has exactly ten ShadowZone TLVs over 8 cameras of 105, never more than two on one camera, which is what makes a four-entry cache enough, and why this costs NO new CRAM.

Same pass found that non-character 8bpp takes the ctor default 105 = 81% brightness, so the whole prop layer had been a fifth too bright since S5.

── LOADING: ~8 s -> ~2 s ON HARDWARE ─────────────────────

The CD reader was doing one GFS_Seek plus one blocking GFS_Fread PER SECTOR. 40 to 55 drive round-trips per screen change, purely because the bounce buffer was 2 KB of HWRAM. It moved to LWRAM. 16 sectors a round-trip now.

The second half is perceptual and is not a performance fix: the screen dims to black over 4 presents WITH THE SPRITE LIST STILL LIVE, holds through the load, and ramps back over 8 composed frames, so the game is already running and the actors come up with the background instead of after it. Before, you watched the new screen paint itself in from the top as sectors landed. The video has a side-by-side.

── AND ONE 19-MILLISECOND CALL ───────────────────────────

On the tick Abe chants, ONE Vram_alloc_block call cost 19.0 ms. 505,344 SH-2 cycles, 95% of the worst VUpdate and 73% of the whole update phase on a 67 ms tick. Not an accumulation: one query.

The stock allocator picks direction by AREA. h*w >= 1024 descends; everything smaller ASCENDS from y = 0 one row at a time. A 20x21 chant orb therefore walks the contested end of VRAM and calls Vram_Is_Area_Free 2*(256-h) = 470 times. The fix skips the rows that provably cannot be the answer (a row only improves on the one below by LOSING a blocker, and a blocker leaves at its bottom edge), keeping the stock predicate as sole authority on x and collision. Worst allocator tick 3948 -> 760 raw ticks, update phase 26 -> 18 ms, worst tick 67 -> 51 ms.

── TWO THINGS I GOT WRONG ────────────────────────────────

1. My previous allocator "optimisation" was a 72-84% REGRESSION on hardware. Five controlled comparisons at identical occupancy, no exceptions. The equivalence proof was correct and irrelevant: it showed the ANSWER is identical and the ITERATION COUNT drops, and never priced one iteration. The stock loop early-exits at the FIRST blocker; mine scanned all N every iteration, and N reaches 55 in the field. A complexity bound is not a measurement. Reverted.

2. I spent four builds hunting the in-play slowdown by naming suspects. Six mechanisms measured and refuted. Accumulation, sub-rect fill, the palette hash, VDP1 fill, the submission path, the SCSP key-on busy-wait. Every one of which I had priced by READING the code and then quoted as if measured. So I stopped naming suspects and split the clock instead. Result: pu 13.6 / pa 11.5 / pv 8.4 / pw 8.5 ms per tick against a 33 ms budget. Three unrelated phases, different authors, different data, all slow in the SAME proportion. That is not an algorithm, it is the signature of a GLOBAL factor, and ours was written in our own Makefile: the core is compiled -Os because code size was the binding constraint at P1, and I forgot to reopen it after the RAM cart moved the resource heap. That is the next piece of work.

── STILL BROKEN, NAMED ───────────────────────────────────

  • In-game frame rate. On hardware, 57-92% of ticks run late on heavy screens. The LCD boards are the first suspect: every screen carrying one runs measurably slower.
  • Door lamps are still the raw first-pass conversion. The 4bpp glow path can't go through a CRAM colour bank, because a bank only ever treats texel index 0 as transparent, while the lookup-table path can make ANY entry transparent, a cel elying on several transparent indices paints its bounding box.
  • The elevator chain still renders wrong (parts missing, no animation)
    Faint white lines appear during the chant.

── WITH THANKS ───────────────────────────────────────────

@slygamer: hardware captures and testing; everything in the last video is hers.
@Wesker: hardware testing. Several fatal-error reports from real hardware led straight to root causes I could not have found in emulation.
@carlos24_: emulation testing, the shared-palette idea behind the character colours, and this post that started the whole port.
 
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Nice! This was actually the port I started looking into doing myself last year. Then I got massively side tracked trying to build a decoder for the videos because I wanted to see if the Saturn was able to run them without re-encoding lol PSX str format on saturn

I wish you luck it will be more fun playing the game if someone else does the port anyway haha. I still remember my brother not letting me play it on his playstation when we were kids just to be a jerk and I said I don't care because its coming to Saturn too (which was rumored at the time)... I'm still waiting to finally play it.
 
Nice! This was actually the port I started looking into doing myself last year. Then I got massively side tracked trying to build a decoder for the videos because I wanted to see if the Saturn was able to run them without re-encoding lol PSX str format on saturn

I wish you luck it will be more fun playing the game if someone else does the port anyway haha. I still remember my brother not letting me play it on his playstation when we were kids just to be a jerk and I said I don't care because its coming to Saturn too (which was rumored at the time)... I'm still waiting to finally play it.
Ahahah I totally get it!
Thanks for the post, I'll look at it. I didn't try anything with the videos yet, just pure theories for now. I'll try to implement it after the main game is debugged and optimized.
 
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