Israel

[Subura]

If you dont want this on the message board delete it but I gotta give my two cents,

Isreal is suffering a series of violent terroist attacks right now and I'd like to point out to anyone trying to claim its Isreal's fault the following points.

1) These are Terrorist attacks of the most vile kind on innocent civilians. These attacks are made to cause the most death possible. These attacks are also being Paid for by Arafat, a large sum of money is given to any family who has a family member that commits a suicide attack. So is the real motivation even Freedom or just money?

2) The Palestinens are allowed to live in freedom in Israel, and even have their own congress men. This is a far improvement for the human rights of Arabs, because in every other Arab nation the government is a Dictatorship, only in Israel is it a Democracy. Even after being given their own authority over large portions of Israel they still attack, why?

3) Things haven't always been violent between Palestinens and Israelis. Up till a year or two ago peace negoitions were going fine, even though during these Negotiations Palestinens were still teaching their children that Israel didn't exist and that they should destroy it. How can we expect a culture that teaches its children to hate to change?Edit :http://memri.org/news/worldnetdaily1.html

Sorry for not adding this before

4) The Israels have been trying to avoid a conflict like the one happening right now for years! Why else would they let Arafat remain in power? Even in this darkest hour they wont attack civilians and restrict themselves to purly millitary targets.

Well thats all I have to say right now, if you disagree please reply, if you agree please reply, Its important that we discuss matters like this and don't Resort to violence. To finish up and include sega, I hope that Sega users can see what I see and stand up for a free Country in its time of need.

(Edited by Subura at 12:29 am on April 4, 2002)

 

[jim993]

all i have to say is you're going to have many people bashing each other LOL eh what ever at least i didn't start this one(note i express no stand on anything why because i don't care)

 

[Subura]

The only places where they cannot go are the same places Isreali's are not, that is inbetween the territories, this is inorder to prevent further terroism not restrain people. And if lack of freedom of movement is wrong then I would like to point out the two soldiers who accidently went into a Palestinen quarter and were killed, Not to metion that the borders and freeways were open to everyone untill this rash of terrorism.

 

[ExCyber]

during these Negotiations Palestinens were still teaching their children that Israel didn't exist and that they should destroy it. How can we expect a culture that teaches its children to hate to change?

What you're saying here sounds like flat-out propaganda, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised by it, since so many people seem to be heavily biased on this conflict. I hope I'm not the only person who thinks that the fault can't be conveniently confined to one side...

Even after being given their own authority over large portions of Israel they still attack, why?

Because a group of people is not the same thing as one person, and not all people within a loosely-defined cultural group necessarily have the same goals, perhaps?

To finish up and include sega, I hope that Sega users can see what I see and stand up for a free Country in its time of need.

I see a conflict that's existed for longer than I have, and that I have little hope of truly understanding.

 

[Subura]

I'm sorry if i sound a little heavy handed in my arguments, I just recieved word of the latest bombing and a friend of mine was almost injured, the balme should be spread but unfortunately the line about children being taught to hate is true.

http://memri.org/news/worldnetdaily1.html

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2001/dec...lestine_edu.htm

America Recognizes This in this article

http://www.njchq.org/Ban_aid_to_PBC_JTA.html

and the Anti Defimation League to sum it up

http://www.adl.org/presrele/IslME_62/3522_62.asp

THings ISrael Shouldn't have done

Let Sharon visit the temple mount

Discriminate against the Palestinins in anyway

Attempt to control any kind of Palestinens, territories citys, etc..

But one thing i'm little annoyed about in this forum is that no one has taken a stand and most have claimed ignorence, this is an important issue and I think its time for everyone to learn about the conflict.

(Edited by Subura at 12:33 am on April 4, 2002)

 

[ExCyber]

But one thing i'm little annoyed about in this forum is that no one has taken a stand and most have claimed ignorence, this is an important issue and I think its time for everyone to learn about the conflict.

I've tried, but with its complexity and the level of hatred and political bullshit that it generates, it's tough to tell who's telling the truth sometimes. So far this seems to be the most plausible explanation of the current conflict that I've seen.

 

[Subura]

I agree, sometimes its hard to figure out whats happening, I'm just hoping the conflict ends peacfully without any nation Palestien or Israel being destroyed.

 

[Raijin Z]

Kill them all, let their chosen gods sort them out.

 

[SkankinMonkey]

If your point is so valid, then why is america the only country in the world that backs Israel?

 

[mtxblau]

Partly because of terrible foreign policy on America's (re: Bush's) part and partly because PM Sharon's stance on Arafat is pretty slanted.

-This war on terrorism thing* hasn't been defined at all from the outset, so if Bush didn't support Israel, he'd be seen as overtly hypocritical. Israel is/has been a U.S. ally for quite a while on top of all of this, so backing out of that would be a disgrace in the world political spectrum.

-PM Sharon can't sit around obviously, and Arafat, while publicly decrying these suicide bombings, isn't doing to stop them. Somewhere, something has to give - but I'm not sure invading Palestine and deposing Arafat is the best way to stop these bombings...

*In terms of 'thing', I'm all for the war on terrorism; however, this is one of those things where Bush is using the overwhelming patriotism to get things on his agenda done that were otherwise unable to be completed - ie the global missle defense system (WTF?!) and getting rid of the SAL treaties, etc. I visited NYC a week after 9/11, and on March 30th, and am all the more angered by this blatant use of national sympathy to get his way.

As a side note: I don't know if anyone else has been to the site, but before you could just walk up to the WTCs (as I did many a time when I lived there). Now you can't go within 4 blocks of the area (w/ the exception of the observation deck). All that's left is a huge crater that goes at least 3 stories into the ground... incredibly solemn area - you could hear a pin drop. Thinking about it brings tears to my eyes.

That was quite a bit off tangent, I know.

MTXBlau

 

[SkankinMonkey]

Bush is using his 'War on terrorism' to gain popularity and gain wartime presidential status. Our freedoms are also being stripped from us in the guise of security.

 

[ExCyber]

In terms of 'thing', I'm all for the war on terrorism; however, this is one of those things where Bush is using the overwhelming patriotism to get things on his agenda done that were otherwise unable to be completed - ie the global missle defense system (WTF?!) and getting rid of the SAL treaties, etc.

If I was a gambler, I'd put money on Bush trying to ride this "fight 'terror,' wherever and whatever we decide that it is, and however we feel like doing it" crusade right through the 2004 election...

 

[SkankinMonkey]

Quote: from ExCyber on 1:27 am on April 4, 2002

In terms of 'thing', I'm all for the war on terrorism; however, this is one of those things where Bush is using the overwhelming patriotism to get things on his agenda done that were otherwise unable to be completed - ie the global missle defense system (WTF?!) and getting rid of the SAL treaties, etc.

If I was a gambler, I'd put money on Bush trying to ride this "fight 'terror,' wherever and whatever we decide that it is, and however we feel like doing it" crusade right through the 2004 election...

While we're at it lets have a war on Rudeness and generally bad attitudes.

 

[FLEABttn]

My question is, bottom line, what the #### is the conflict over? The news coverage I view doesn't talk about what this is over, they only seem to talk about new terrorist bombings, new military actions, and how this is going to end. Not only that, but the majority of the news seems strongly biased in favor of Israel, so I can't really understand it as well as I would like to.

I don't know what the #### their fighting about, dammit!

Anybody have a link that really sorts this out? Or anyone willing to explain?

 

[mtxblau]

As you probably know, there have been a rash of suicide bombings, recently, in Israel by Palestinians. Sharon called for Arafat to get this under control. That didn't / couldn't happen.

Basically, Sharon is calling this a war on terrorism (as well). He's invading Palestine to take basically stop the bombings. As for why the U.S. is heavily biased towards the Israelites, read some of the previous posts.

There isn't any real end to this battle - like the Gaza Strip, Bethlehem, or Kashmir (India/Pakistan), it never TRULY ends.

Arafat is stuck between a rock and a hard place, because if he acquiesces the people will turn on him, but if he doesn't, he's going to have to retaliate. Truly though, Arafat is seen by extremists to be friends with the U.S. anyways.

Pretty lousy 'war', if anything. It epitomizes several different mindsets and the inability to compromise. It's fanaticism at it's highest degree.

In the end, it'll probably be Sharon continuing past the war on terrorism to the war on Palestine, period, depose Arafat and install (w/ the help of the U.S.) an interim gov't which will be loyal to both the U.S. and Israel.

By 2004 we'll probably see the same in one of the following: Iraq, Iran, North Korea, or China. Bush has been given free reign (and apparently, our Soc Sec Money) to do whatever he wants in the war to fight terrorism, and if anyone questions it, they'll be seen as unpatriotic. Kindof like McCarthyism.

In sum: Republicans have no foreign policy, unless it has to do with war. Which is scary, really, since we truly aren't ready to combat bio-warfare, which is seemingly en-vogue now with aggressors...

 

[ExCyber]

This seems to be a surprisingly unbiased (though the quote at the top makes it just a bit suspect IMO) timeline. It doesn't go into deep detail, but it's nice to have some idea of the historical context of the conflict: http://www.pbs.org/viadolorosa/history.html

 

[SimSonic]

Ok, Im a bit of a expert in this subject...in my point of view anyway.

I have been in Israel for 6 times, every time for a month or a bit longer(!) and Im only 15. My sister lives there and is a jew nowdays...he married a Israelian jew. I was in the weddings last summer...and I really like being there. Israel is a such beautiful country...

And about the conflict, Im bit on the side of Israel and particularry jews. What other place could they have gone after the II World War? But I dont like Sharon`s policy, but I think they have bored about suicide bombings...and when the peaceful way didnt work they now try the other way.

 

[Ratamahatta]

Suicide bombings to me are terrorist attacks. That type of crap isnt right, anyone who walks into a place with a bomb strapped to them and tries to take lots of innocent people with them is a psychopath.

 

[segasonic]

It makes me sad that people are capable of doing such a thing... such is the world these days though

 

[IceDigger]

I couldn't care less about people bombing and shooting each other. it happens daily, it happens everywhere, this just happens to be a bigger bunch of people bashing each other's heads in, live with it, you ain't gonna change shit. it's human nature to destroy ourselves.

end of discussion.