Originally posted by gameboy900+Apr 28, 2003 @ 09:43 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gameboy900 @ Apr 28, 2003 @ 09:43 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-aaron@Apr 28, 2003 @ 10:46 AM
gamefoo21: if you find me a source, then i'll put my foot in my mouth and say you were right. but it still won't change the fact that plants are not sentient beings and do not feel pain.
Just because something cannot react or quickly express pain doesn't mean it doesn't feel it. Plants just take alot longer to reach to environmental changes than animals. And just how exactly can you say plant's aren't sentient beings...philosophers have been trying to figure this our for thousands of years and have yet to actually come up with a good solid definition of it. Plants are just slow animals in the end who can happen to make their own food. That's about as far as the diffrences between the two go. I mean heck how do you define algee, it can make it's own food but is single celled like other protozoa which we call animal..more or less. And hey there are plants that eat animals too. The whole animal/plant thing is really not as simple as people say or think it is.
And hey when I peel an apple I am basically skinning a (used to be) alive creature...how is that diffrent from what happens in a slaughter house when they skin a pig or cow? And please explain to me how you are supposed to kill an animal for food purposes and not see the things you had in those pictures.
And as for the whole teeth thing that is mostly a question of evolution. Over the many thousands of years humans have been around, our ability to use tools to cut and carve meat has made our "fangs" less necesary for survival than in the past. If you look at skulls of ancient humans you will find larger "fangs" on them. Also our closest cousins apes and such have much larger "fangs" than we do..mostly due to their lack of tool use. [/b][/quote]
okay, okay.. this is getting ugly now. sorry.
just for clarification's sake, an apple is the fruit of a living tree. so it was never alive. regardless of whether you think plants are sentient or not, take a look at these. they can probably explain a lot better than i can.
The Facts About Eating Animal Products...
by John Robbins, author of "Diet for a New America" and founder of Earthsave International.
The Hunger Argument:
Number of People worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60 million
Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if Americans reduced meat intake by 10%: 60 million
Human beings in America: 243 million
Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by US livestock: 1.3 billion
Percentage of corn grown in US eaten by people: 20%
Percentage of corn grown in US eaten by livestock: 80%
Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 90%
Percentage of oats grown in US eaten by livestock: 95%
How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds
Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an acre: 20,000 lbs
Pounds of beef produced on an acre: 165 lbs
Percentage of US farmland devoted to beef production: 56%
Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce 1 pound of feedlot beef: 16 lbs.
The Environmental Argument:
Cause of global warming: greenhouse effect
Primary cause of greenhouse effect: Carbon Dioxide from fossil fuels
Fossil fuels needed to produce a meat-centered diet vs. a meat-free diet: 50 times more
Percentage of US topsoil lost to date: 75%
Percentage of US topsoil loss directly related to livestock raising: 85%
Number of acres of US forest cleared for cropland to produce meat-centered diet: 260 million acres
Amount of meat US imports annually from Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Panama: 200,000,000 pounds
Average per capita meat consumption in Costa Rica, El Salveador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Panama: Less than eaten by average US house cat
Area of tropical rainforest consumed in every quarter-pounder hamburger: 55 sq. ft.
Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical rainforests for meat grazing and other uses: 1,000 species extinct per year
The Cancer Argument:
Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat four times a week vs. less than once a week: 4 times
Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat eggs daily vs less than once a week: 3 times
Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat cheese and butter 3 or more times a week vs less than once a week: 3 times
Increased risk of ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or more times a week vs less than once a week: 3 times
Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who consume meat, cheese, eggs and milk daily vs sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times
The Natural Resources Argument:
User of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the US: Livestock production
Amount of water to produce a pound of wheat: 25 gallons
Amount of water to produce a pound of meat: 2,500 gallons
Cost of common hamburger if water used by meat industry was not subsidized by US taxpayer: $35/pound
Current cost of pound of protein from beefsteak, if water was no longer subsidized: $89
Years the world's known oil reserves will last if every human ate a meat-centered diet: 13 years
Years the world's known oil reserves will last if human beings no longer ate meat: 260 years
Barrels of oil imported into US daily: 6.8 million
Percentage of fossil fuel energy returned as food energy by most efficient factory farming of meat: 34.5 percent
Percentage returned as food energy from least efficient plant food: 328%
Percentage of raw materials consumed by US to produce present meat-centered diet: 33%
The Cholesterol Argument:
Number of US Medical Schools: 125
Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30
Nutrition training received by average US physician during four years in medical school: 2.5 hours
Most common cause of death in the US: Heart attack
How frequently a heart attack kills in the US: Every 45 seconds
Average US man's risk of death from heart attack: 50%
Risk for average US man who avoids the meat-centered diet: 15%
Risk for average US vegan man: 4%
Amount you reduce risk of heart attack if you reduce consumption of animal products by 10 percent: 9%
Amount you reduce risk of heart attack if you reduce consumption of animal products by 50 percent: 45%
Amount you reduce risk by changing to a vegan diet: 90 percent
Meat, dairy, and egg industries claim you should not be concerned about your blood cholesterol if it is: "normal"
Your risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries if your blood cholesterol is "normal": >50%
The Antibiotic Argument:
Percentage of US antibiotics fed to livestock: 55%
Percentage of staph infections resistant to penicillin in 1960: 13%
Percentage of staph infections resistant to penicillin in 1988: 91%
Response of European Economic Community to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock: Ban
Respons of US meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock: Full and complete support
The Pesticide Argument:
Percentage of pesticide residues in the US diet supplied by grains: 1%
Percentage of pesticide residues in the US diet supplied by fruits: 4%
Percentage of pesticide residues in the US diet supplied by vegetables: 6%
Percentage of pesticide residues in the US diet supplied by dairy products: 23%
Percentage of pesticide residues in the US diet supplied by meat: 55%
Pesticide contamination of breast milk from meat eating mothers vs non-meat eating: 35 times higher
What USDA tells us: Meat is inspected
Percentage of slaughtered animals inspected for residues of toxic chemicals such as dioxin and DDT: <0.00004%
The Ethical Argument:
Number of animals killed for meat per hour in US: 500,000
Occupation with highest turnover rate in US: Slaughterhouse Worker
Occupation with the highest rate of on-the-job injury in US: Slaughterhouse Worker
Cost to render animal unconscious with "captive bolt pistol": 1 cent
Reason given by meat industry fo not using "captive bolt pistol": Too expensive
so like i said, make your choice, and live your life, but make sure you're at the very least informed.