US run by psychopaths

[ExCyber]

Speaking of the mini-nukes, have you heard of this supposed "e-bomb" that's supposed to wreck electrical infrastructure by sending out an EM pulse? Some people have found it relevant to point out that - surprise! - nukes do something like this...

So as to not heat up things too much, here's a fairly unemotional summary of what I think at the moment:

- Saddam's government is illegitimate and brutal.

- Bush's government is marginally legitimate, but at least he's got Congress (even if the Democrats are too spineless to really stand up to him when it comes to a vote) and a few Supreme Court justices to balance it out a bit.

- The war isn't solely about oil, nor is it solely about disarming Saddam and/or liberating the Iraqi people. I'm sure that these goals are not trivial to the administration, but I very much doubt that either is the primary motivation. More likely Bush intends to sacrifice the short-term stability of a contained Saddam for the long-term strategic benefit of having a decidedly US-friendly regime in a central location in the region. Or maybe he really does believe that he's doing the Right Thing. Who knows?

- A war will most likely increase anti-American sentiment and possibly terrorism in the short term. What happens in the long term depends very much on what happens after the war (cf. Germany after WW1 vs. Germany and Japan after WW2).

- IIRC, White House officials have repeatedly stated that they don't want to get involved in "nation-building". They don't seem to specify exactly what they mean by that, and the vagueness is just a little unsettling.

- Eric Eldred should have won Eldred v. Ashcroft - not relevant to the war as such, but the implications are a bit scary anyway. Plus, I don't like Ashcroft.

- David Rees rocks. Catharsis is good.

 

[Lyzel]

If the US was doing this only for the oil, then they would have already done so. But some of you are so misguided that you will believe anything, so telling otherwise it's just not worth it. Just like these other stories about going to war to help the economy. That has to be the most stupid reason I ever heard. I mean, do the math. It doesn't match????

It's all about what Saddam is capable. He may not be that much of a threat to your country, but he is definetly a threat to U.S security. He gassed and killed his own people, and use chemical agents in the Iraq/Iran war. He has defied the UN for over 12 years now. What makes him want to comply now??

As for there not being much support in the U.S?? Who said?? There are 150+ million people in the U.S, the only stupid ones that go out and protest the war are less than 500,000. Just because there are *loud* protest doesn't mean that they are the majority, and war must stop.

 

[Lyzel]

Originally posted by crystalmethod@Mar 8, 2003 @ 02:20 AM

There has been recnt evidence to suggest that North Korea has been developing weapons of mass destruction. Why doesn't Bush go stick his nose there?

Because the Koreans will give them a HELL of a fight.

Um, you're wrong. The big difference between Iraq and North Korea is that North Korea admits it has them, while Iraq says they don't. There is enough intelligence to suggest they do have them. With North Korea you can be ready, but you can't say what Iraq would do.

 

[mal]

Originally posted by ExCyber@Mar 8, 2003 @ 01:33 PM

More likely Bush intends to sacrifice the short-term stability of a contained Saddam for the long-term strategic benefit of having a decidedly US-friendly regime in a central location in the region.

Yeah, but Saddam used to be US friendly.

So was Osama bin Laden...

The US really needs to take a long hard look at what it's meddling foreign policy has acheived over the years and reconsider what it's doing now.

 

[mal]

Originally posted by Lyzel+Mar 8, 2003 @ 01:51 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lyzel @ Mar 8, 2003 @ 01:51 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>It's all about what Saddam is capable. He may not be that much of a threat to your country, but he is definetly a threat to U.S security. [/b]

How is he a threat to the US?

He gassed and killed his own people, and use chemical agents in the Iraq/Iran war.

He used weapons supplied by the US back when he was considered useful.

He has defied the UN for over 12 years now. What makes him want to comply now??

Many other nations defy the UN. Perhaps the US should invade Israel next...

<!--QuoteBegin-Lyzel@Mar 8, 2003 @ 01:59 PM

Um, you're wrong. The big difference between Iraq and North Korea is that North Korea admits it has them, while Iraq says they don't. There is enough intelligence to suggest they do have them. With North Korea you can be ready, but you can't say what Iraq would do.[/quote]

I think that's the best part of this whole 'conflict'.

Iraq hasn't threatened anyone (except the US and co if they attack) and yet they are going to be attacked any day now.

North Korea has restarted it's nuclear program and has made many threats and the US don't want to know.

What's their priority again?

 

[ExCyber]

He gassed and killed his own people

The Kurds are Saddam's people?

 

[mal]

They do live within the Iraqi border, but that's about the extent of it.

 

[antime]

The situation of the Kurd's won't change, whatever the outcome of the current situation. The reason is that the US need Turkey as their allies, and Turkey is busy suppressing its own Kurdish population.

 

[Curtis]

Lyzel, the deaths of the Kurds happened over a decade ago. If it was such an important issue then, why is Saddam not dead now?

At the risk of splitting hairs, does the US not also gas and kill it's own people? Sure you call said people criminals, but I'm sure that there are a number of cases when innocent people have been essentially murdered by the Government of the time for their "crime".

This whole conflict is about points of view - everything from the destruction of the World Trade Centre, to the deaths of Iraqi civilians is justifiable from one point of view or another. Both sides believe absolutely that they are right and the opposition is wrong. It is a scary thing to see in action.

 

[crystalmethod]

So just because the US knows that North Korea is capable of mass destruciton, probably much more so then Iraq, they are doing nothing to stop them?

Thats pretty weird, that means that essentially, North Korea is going to attack and the US will worry about it when it happens. Not a very intelligent defence policy.

 

[gamefoo21]

Personally i think that the states is scared to take on North Korea. I mean if you listen to the deal they made back in the day. The US royally fucked NK and you know do they ever bring that up. The US made a deal with NK to shut down there reactor and build some of the cando types. So what happens NK shuts down its reactor, shelves plans to build more and waits, and the US goes oh fuck them and lets them sit idle. So really the US would have a hell of alot harder time justifying war with NK when they started that whole mess. Mind you the US gov is just wanting to bully everyone look at the way they treat Canada. There supplements are 3 times of what Canada's are, and they cry foul play and slap tariff's on Canada.

Bah I sort of hope the US goes it alone and gets its ass royally kicked like in vietnam. <_<

Oh and as for WMD the US seems to have the largest number of them and they seem to have the moronic idea that they are the only country that should have them.

HeH i know i am gonna get in trouble for this

Spelling mistakes

 

[Daniel Eriksson]

Oh and as for WMD the US seems to have the largest number of them and they seem to have the moronic idea that they are the only country that should have them.

So true, so true. And guess what, US is the only country that have ever used weapons of mass destruction.

I think that Bush should mind his own country.

"Most of our import comes from overseas..." Yeah right...

"I am shure that we can bring a proper suggestion to bring this solution to an end"

Umm, All your base are belong to us...

"I believe the human being and fish can coexist peacefully" Sounds like a nice idea, why not let humanity coexist peacefully to?

"Its time for humanity to enter the solar system" Umm, where is he now then?

"We are ready for every unpredidictable happening that may or may not happen" I certainly hope so...

"Acctually, teachers are the only ones who teaches our children" Well, it is their job...

"We will have the best educated Americans in the world" Where else do you find them?

"We are strongly bound to Nato. We are a part of Nato. We are strongy bound to Europe. We are a part of Europe. Oh no!

"When you ask me who caused the risings and killing i Los Angeles, my answer has been clear : On who should be blame the risings? On those who was a part of them. On who should we blame the killing? On those who killed. " Well, isnt that obvious...

"If we dont success, its a risk that we fail" Thats deep...

And finally, the worst thing :

"The most bizzare of humans can get into a weak and responsible situation and play a big role in world history" Did he looked in his mirror?

Yep! Bush has said all this. Psychopath or not, he should think before he talks... This is just some of all dumb things he has said. I dont say that he should be perfect, but I do request some more from the most powerful man in the world...

 

[Zziggy00]

Originally posted by ExCyber@Mar 7, 2003 @ 09:33 PM

Speaking of the mini-nukes, have you heard of this supposed "e-bomb" that's supposed to wreck electrical infrastructure by sending out an EM pulse?

A large article about them was in Popular Mechanics or some simalar magizine over a year a go...it seems they can be built for about $400

Bah I sort of hope the US goes it alone and gets its ass royally kicked like in vietnam

in response to this, life is life, loseing it is always a shame...never wish death on anyone.

 

[Tony Skyrunner]

Daniel's post lol

 

[actripxl]

First of let me say that I'm an American and love my country and what it stands for. Unlike most of my other fellow americans I have lived outside the U.S. for some years and have a great deal of friends from other countries, this has given me a different perspective from most of my countrymen. With all due respect Lyzel quit spitting your Bush propaganda to us. With that said even though I didn't vote for Bush and actually despise the idiot, I and all americans for or against the war should stand behind the military personal since they have no choice about it. This war is about oil just like the last one only disguised under a cloak of giving people independence.

 

[SkankinMonkey]

Wouldn't it be cool if we could vote for wars? And only people with IQ's about 110 could vote

 

[Lyzel]

Nah. Talk all the propanga you folks like.

I believe that what the U.S. is doing is a just and moral cause. Most of the countries do believe that Saddam is an evil man. The problem is just how to go about disarming him.

Soooo... Keep up your anti-american attitudes, talk all the shit you want. Make up all the stupid excuses you can think of, etc, etc.

But you know? If it wasn't for America, some of your lives would have been different today.

So anyways, with that said.. I'm staying out of this stupid anti-american thread.

 

[Mr. Moustache]

This entire situation is playing itself out like a bad movie. And I for one am cringing when I think of the possible endings. We are slowly moving the United States into the uncharted waters of becoming a rogue state. Our arrogance is unsurpassed, our ignorance is unseen, and our morals seem misguided. The acts of Sep. 11 were worthy of the shedding of thousands of tears. I watched people jump from the twin towers simply because they would burn alive if otherwise. I saw 2 of the largest building in the world collapse. The images are forever scarred into our brains, and they will remain for many years to come, if not for the rest of our lives. And by this horrid event occuring we somehow think that the answer to all of our problems is to fight?

This in itself is going to sound like a horrible cliche, but, that's exactly what the terrorist want. I do not believe that Osama Bin Laden had any doubt in his mind that the U.S. would strike back if attacked on their main land. And I don't see how he could believe his army strong enough to withstand our forces. This is as simple as a game of cards, and atm we think we are winning while the fact of the matter is that Bin Laden has a full house and a damn good poker face on. Anti-American Sentiment will grow as we slowly carrie out illegal wars with pre-emptive strikes that are carried out simple on the moral argument that they "might" attack(even though if Iraq shot a missile at us it would land thousands of miles away since they haven't the technology to make it to our shores).

I understand that a lot of people won't totally agree with that last paragraph, it is, for the most part, my opinion. But I have a right to state it, and no, it is NOT Anti-American, it is Pro-American, Anti-Bush, and pro-peace.

I do not condone war in any way shape or form, but I also know the UN is there for a reason, and Mr. Bush should allow them to do their job. If they say no to war he should listen, we are one of the founding members, and if we wish to keep our relevance in the world community we should act like it.

 

[Curtis]

Well said, Mr Moustache.

Lyzel, this thread is not "anti-American" in nature. It protests the lengths that your Government is going to to fight a war that is without reason. Nobody denies that Saddam is an evil man who has done wrong now and in the past, but as it stands he has done nothing that would justify a full scale attack by foreign forces.

It will be the people of Iraq who suffer in any war against their country, not Suddam - surely you can see this?

 

[gamefoo21]

I'm not anti-american, I'm sorry that i mis-said what i think, i got wriled up

. So besides that its true that the military has no choice but to follow what bush wants. But what about congress doesn't it have a really powerful say. But enough of this, as far as wars go this one is dumb, Bush wants to finish a job his dad failed to do and about guaranteeing that the oil industry stays strong(doesn't he own an oil company). And he doesn't have the intelligence to figure out that this is gonna bite him and his country in the ass. Saddam's longest range missiles have a range of about 183km. How far is Iraq from the US? Someone plz tell me where the threat to security is???

So either way I think Saddam is an evil man but he has no power he got castrated after the gulf war. He has no planes, he has nothing to defend himself with really against the outside world. Also aren't the americans and british destroying his air defense systems as we speak because they are just going to bomb the hell out of iraq?

This war is gonna get messy. People aren't gonna be happy getting bullied and picked on. Only the people of the US can really stop this war from happening, by choosing not to blindly follow a retard from texas.

:agree Saddam can easily escape a bullet through the brain, fast and painless.

Who hasn't seen the picture of Bush holding those binoculars at an army base and trying to look through them while the lens caps are still on??? :cheers sum good stuff