All ratings systems are voluntary. However, most theaters will not carry unrated movies, just like they won't carry NC-17 movies. I do like the idea of the console makers coming up with a V-Chip type thing for the consoles. That would be pretty easy to do. AS someone pointed out, X-Box already does it. They key is the industry could do more; yet so can the paretns. Many parents need to take a more active role in raising THEIR children. And that extends beyond just games. TV, movies, the internet,etc. Parents use media to entertain their children. They do not interact enough with them.
Bully Draws Protestors to Rockstars Front Doors
- Thread starter stack99
- Start date
This is just like the whole ratings scandal the movie industry suffered during the early twentieth century. With groups like the Catholic league, Hollywood began requiring some pretty ridiculous self-censorship in their products (like not making any references to god, or ridiculing motherhood, etc.) Today, the taboos are less defined because american culture in general like to push things to the limit, often to the point of being in bad taste. I find that to be more of a problem than the content itself. In 25 years, with hope, the videogame industry will have matured enough, along with its audience, to not have to deal with these ratings scandal on a daily basis. Quite frankly, I thought this whole hysteria pretty much died in 1994/96 with MK and Duke Nukem. I think it's ridiculous, and funny, that politicians still view it as a viable source for popularity.
The root of the problem is the United States in general... violent crime is nearly unheard of in Japan, and in small numbers in other developed countries in comparison to the united states, yet they have uncensored TV, and the same violent games we have(though some countries like AUS have banned GTA:SA). But they have none of the same problems, or at least not in the same quantity that we do.
So, WE are the problem, and while the a lot of other countries seem to have figured it out America tends to think that they're better and can somehow do it different. That may work sometimes, but when reality sets in that is the exception and not the rule.
So, WE are the problem, and while the a lot of other countries seem to have figured it out America tends to think that they're better and can somehow do it different. That may work sometimes, but when reality sets in that is the exception and not the rule.
The "American violent cultural phenom" has been studied adnauseum; and there is still no answer. Why does Canada have a lower crime rate? They don't even have the extreme number of "gun laws" we have here. Hell, in the UK when did the police start carying guns?
This is the "problem"; but what is the cause? You can't "cure" the problem without knowing the cause.
This is the "problem"; but what is the cause? You can't "cure" the problem without knowing the cause.
Well, yeah we are, but that's beside the point.
Besides, what I said wasn't a stereotype, it was a generalization. There is a slight difference. :cheers
And while we know the problem, the other issue is that anytime someone even approaches trying to address the real root cause, they get attacked by the other side. If someone from the right tries to address the cause, their answer is aways starts with the church which causes the left to automaticaly reject everything they have to offer. If someone from the right has some bright ideas, the right drowns it all out with cries of liberal and socialist propoganda. The only way anything is going to get done is if suddenly a large number of independants got elected. Our culture has reached a point where even in homes with two parents, both have to work two or three jobs just to keep the bills paid and the TV becomes the babysitter. All the jobs that pay well enough for one person to support a family on are drying up and going overseas. All the new jobs are part-time, minimum-wage working in retail or fast-food. Gone are the days where one of the parents can stay home to raise the youngsters.
lordofduct
Established Member
But the parents really are ignoring these blatant calls. Does a parent bring their 6 year old to a Movie Rated R? No, everyone knows not to do that.
Well if the game says intended for 17 and up, what else would that mean, there is probablya damn good reason and these people ignore it because they think that videogames are for kids and there is nothing bad there. ??? WTF, they are not educated at all... I used to hang out at the gamestop just to talk to parents when they came in. They'd being asking the kids that worked there what system to buy there 7 and 8 years olds and they'd be screaming about the XBOX. The parent was like "wow my son would love that, thankyou!"
I'd inturn interject and explain what game content was the majority of XBOX games. When the Parent heard me explaining what this "Halo" is amongst most of the other games on there and that the games are geared more towards young adults with its monthly fees for XBOX live to play games of 40 some odd people blowing each other away. The parents would be disgusted and tell me that they did not know this. This I blaim on the stores, they are advertising blindly to the parents with the money.
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When I was a kid my mother did not like my Sega Genesis. She knew what Mortal Kombat was and other gore fest filled games. Even prior to the release of MK she was very adament about monitoring what I played. Do you know what I grew up on for games? Sonic, EWJ, ECCO, TJ+E puzzle games, Mickey Mouse games (which of she actually only like ECCO because it was pretty). I can't remember one really gorey game in my catalogue, if it was it was more cartoony like say "Decapattack". That is how a parent aughta be with there child. I actually hate to say it as I have lots of respect for people who try to raise their kids properly and there are many who do. But to many are lazy and don't bother, those are the ones who have to be taught. Im not saying they aughta been as strict about it as my mother (my mother also wasn't for the censoring thing, she felt I aughta do something more productive with my time and if I 'had' to game it better be a puzzle game over anything else). Im just saying if you have a standard.. follow that standard.
Now back flip on this is that even though the game is rated 'M', it is rated such because of violence. What if the parent allows violence but not sex under their choice. Understandable, they have been misled. One thing I do have to say to this and it has been seid before. You have to alter the game ILLEGALLY from the published version to actually access this vid clip.
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Personally I want to be a parent and I am waiting in hope that I will be ready enough and spend more time with my future children. I feel it is parents faults as they don't spend time with them, don't learn who they are... wait tangent, bad dyldo, I need to shut up now or I'll go on forever.
Well if the game says intended for 17 and up, what else would that mean, there is probablya damn good reason and these people ignore it because they think that videogames are for kids and there is nothing bad there. ??? WTF, they are not educated at all... I used to hang out at the gamestop just to talk to parents when they came in. They'd being asking the kids that worked there what system to buy there 7 and 8 years olds and they'd be screaming about the XBOX. The parent was like "wow my son would love that, thankyou!"
I'd inturn interject and explain what game content was the majority of XBOX games. When the Parent heard me explaining what this "Halo" is amongst most of the other games on there and that the games are geared more towards young adults with its monthly fees for XBOX live to play games of 40 some odd people blowing each other away. The parents would be disgusted and tell me that they did not know this. This I blaim on the stores, they are advertising blindly to the parents with the money.
----
When I was a kid my mother did not like my Sega Genesis. She knew what Mortal Kombat was and other gore fest filled games. Even prior to the release of MK she was very adament about monitoring what I played. Do you know what I grew up on for games? Sonic, EWJ, ECCO, TJ+E puzzle games, Mickey Mouse games (which of she actually only like ECCO because it was pretty). I can't remember one really gorey game in my catalogue, if it was it was more cartoony like say "Decapattack". That is how a parent aughta be with there child. I actually hate to say it as I have lots of respect for people who try to raise their kids properly and there are many who do. But to many are lazy and don't bother, those are the ones who have to be taught. Im not saying they aughta been as strict about it as my mother (my mother also wasn't for the censoring thing, she felt I aughta do something more productive with my time and if I 'had' to game it better be a puzzle game over anything else). Im just saying if you have a standard.. follow that standard.
Now back flip on this is that even though the game is rated 'M', it is rated such because of violence. What if the parent allows violence but not sex under their choice. Understandable, they have been misled. One thing I do have to say to this and it has been seid before. You have to alter the game ILLEGALLY from the published version to actually access this vid clip.
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Personally I want to be a parent and I am waiting in hope that I will be ready enough and spend more time with my future children. I feel it is parents faults as they don't spend time with them, don't learn who they are... wait tangent, bad dyldo, I need to shut up now or I'll go on forever.
Leave it to the guy who works for a porn publisher to hit the nail on the head here. 
:thumbs-up:
Exactly. When I was a little kid, my mother inspected EVERYTHING before I was allowed to watch, play, or listen to it. I wasn't allowed to watch GI Joe cartoons because they were about humans trying to kill one another. Transformers were okay because it was about robots. (I never really understood the distinction at the time, but I suppose I can see it now.) I wasn't allowed having a DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince tape that I wanted because it had a song called "Too Damn Hype." No cuss words! (And it was JJ+FP, not 2 Live Crew, c'mon! lol) Hell, she wigged out over a Spiderman comicbook when I was 14 and she saw that there was a scene in it with Mary Jane wearing a nightie. She grabbed the book from me and "inspected" every damn page before she gave it back to me. Spiderman, comic-code-approved. My NES was out in the family room where she could see what was on the screen from the kitchen. I wasn't allowed getting any game that we hadn't rented first. (SMB3 being the only exception.)
Now, like lordofduct up there, today I feel that some of this was too strict. But perhaps that is because we both grew up in the 80's and 90's, and our parents grew up in the 50's and 60's. Kinda like how movies that got an X rating in the early 70's can get an R now when they come out on DVD. Culturaly, tastes have changed.
None the less, we both had parents who took the time to know what we were getting into. If more parents could do the same today, more regulation of the entertainment industries would be unnecessary. People point to other countries, with miniscule crime rates and rampant violence and sex on TV. The fact is, those countries' cultures continue to put family values on the top of their priorities.
What everyone is afraid to admit here is that this has happened as a result of economics. No longer can one parent stay home, both must work to pay the bills. And I hate to say it, but this will continue until either our economy completely colapses or we come up with something new that no other country can produce. Something that'll create new high-paying jobs instead of the 1 million little piss-ant part-time minimum-wage jobs that the president is so proud for having seen 'created.'
The missed opportunities are endless. We didn't dominate computer programming fast enough and now all the programming jobs are going to Asia. And the biggest one is hybrid engine cars. The American car manufacturers completely missed the boat on that one. The Japanese car manufacturers are so far ahead of us now that there's no chance of us catching up. We need someone like Henry Ford. He not only believed in producing an affordable product, he believed that ALL his employees should be able to afford it themselves. Until the day comes that someone comes up with something new and sets up shop right here, until someone can create a new industry that pays well enough for one person to support a family, until we get our collective heads out of our asses about things like socialized health care, and until we can afford to go back to basics for our families, this will continue to get worse. And the worse the situation gets, the more people that will be willing to listen when someone cries "Rockstar Games is corrupting your kids!"
:thumbs-up: Exactly. When I was a little kid, my mother inspected EVERYTHING before I was allowed to watch, play, or listen to it. I wasn't allowed to watch GI Joe cartoons because they were about humans trying to kill one another. Transformers were okay because it was about robots. (I never really understood the distinction at the time, but I suppose I can see it now.) I wasn't allowed having a DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince tape that I wanted because it had a song called "Too Damn Hype." No cuss words! (And it was JJ+FP, not 2 Live Crew, c'mon! lol) Hell, she wigged out over a Spiderman comicbook when I was 14 and she saw that there was a scene in it with Mary Jane wearing a nightie. She grabbed the book from me and "inspected" every damn page before she gave it back to me. Spiderman, comic-code-approved. My NES was out in the family room where she could see what was on the screen from the kitchen. I wasn't allowed getting any game that we hadn't rented first. (SMB3 being the only exception.)
Now, like lordofduct up there, today I feel that some of this was too strict. But perhaps that is because we both grew up in the 80's and 90's, and our parents grew up in the 50's and 60's. Kinda like how movies that got an X rating in the early 70's can get an R now when they come out on DVD. Culturaly, tastes have changed.
None the less, we both had parents who took the time to know what we were getting into. If more parents could do the same today, more regulation of the entertainment industries would be unnecessary. People point to other countries, with miniscule crime rates and rampant violence and sex on TV. The fact is, those countries' cultures continue to put family values on the top of their priorities.
What everyone is afraid to admit here is that this has happened as a result of economics. No longer can one parent stay home, both must work to pay the bills. And I hate to say it, but this will continue until either our economy completely colapses or we come up with something new that no other country can produce. Something that'll create new high-paying jobs instead of the 1 million little piss-ant part-time minimum-wage jobs that the president is so proud for having seen 'created.'
The missed opportunities are endless. We didn't dominate computer programming fast enough and now all the programming jobs are going to Asia. And the biggest one is hybrid engine cars. The American car manufacturers completely missed the boat on that one. The Japanese car manufacturers are so far ahead of us now that there's no chance of us catching up. We need someone like Henry Ford. He not only believed in producing an affordable product, he believed that ALL his employees should be able to afford it themselves. Until the day comes that someone comes up with something new and sets up shop right here, until someone can create a new industry that pays well enough for one person to support a family, until we get our collective heads out of our asses about things like socialized health care, and until we can afford to go back to basics for our families, this will continue to get worse. And the worse the situation gets, the more people that will be willing to listen when someone cries "Rockstar Games is corrupting your kids!"
Let's see if I can come up with a wall of text too ... (BTW I read both lordofduct and VertigoXX's posts from start to finish, I'm not complaining)
I had a similar strict upbringing until I was about 14 or 15 after that it was a complete free-for-all, but I've read ages 1-12 are the most important ages for molding your kids into the little do-good twat that you want them to be so for all intents and purposes I had the same type of upbrining. I have a nasty case of "Social Anxiety Disorder" I'm told that that particular ailment begins by age 10 if you have it, and that's when it happened with me. Basically what that means is I am uncomfortable in my own skin when I'm around people. I can hang out here and chat with you all because the contact we make is minimal, but even something like voice-chat on Xbox Live is uncomfortable for me, so I always shut it off when I had Live. My justification for doing that was that it's just a bunch of idiots talking on Live and they distract me when I'm playing the game; I actually made myself believe that. So hopefully that explains why I latch onto what I consider an antisocial activity, like videogames in such an extreme way. Which takes us back to subject at hand. My parents regulated my gaming in such a strict fashion, it still has me scratching my head. I couldn't play videogames after 6 PM and even then, I could only play two hours if I managed to get some mroe time for it. I could only play three hours a day on weekends. If I got mad at a game I had to "take a break" which meant stop for the day. I couldn't play any games like Goldeneye 007 because they "trained you to kill people". Yeah really good thinking pops, I've got this AK-47 here sitting next to my toy box that I have no idea how to use because I haven't played a fictional game that poorly simulates firing a gun. One time my dad took all my game consoles and threw the peripherals all over the room because I got a C+ on a math quiz and didn't give them back for two months because he wanted a B- or better. There was like a good few months that he hid my Sega Genesis somewhere. And back then I was nice so I let my little brother use it too, he was only 4 or 5 at the time he was all:"Where's the Sega? *sniffle* ? I replied, "I just don't know little guy, I just don't know" My parents unrational contempt for videogames made a little fat boy cry, how can anyone sleep at night knowing they made a little fat boy cry? Let's not even go into film, I didn't see a PG-13 movie until I was at least 13, I guess that's not so bad. Even when I was 17 though (my parents left me alone for the msot part, but not always) they tried to stop me from watching Scarface because of the scene of implied violence with the chainsaw. Suprisingly Takashi Miike films and Gaspar Noe's Irreversible are ok viewing material though. I could never bring a female or even regular friends to my place becuase my mom would constantly check to make sure there are no gang-bangs going on or what not. So I always had to be a bum and stay over at my friends houses (I had a few). I could go on and on
Now that whole last paragraph was just some background info on me, you could have and should have skipped through that, my real point is are those of us that had these strict, involved parents really better off? I don't know about Vertigo, but I know lordofduct isn't exactly Joe Average (although I can see him really making something out of himself). I'm 18 and going nowhere. I have no job (working on it) am going to lame community college to train for a job that I will probably be passed up in favor of sending it over to India instead of iring me. Furthermore all my friends are gone and I just sit around all day doing a whole lot of nothing. NOW, I know what everyone is thinking: Dud your post is unnecesarily long and borderline self-pitying emo banter, and I will now get on my high horse and condemn your reprehensible behavior because this is the internet and everyone is a hard-ass here. But this is not a self-pity post, I'll rise up and overcome my difficulties later this week, I'm just trying to show everyone how it doesn't matter how involved your parents were in raising you, or how much they "protected" you from evil evil violence and sex. I say let your kids do what they want within reason. Seeing two poorly rendered idiots with no genitalia screw around in the Hot Coffee Mod is not going to adversly affect anyone over age 12 same with this new game Bully. Why not teach values to your kids, like respect and integrity, instead of fumbling for the remote when a tit comes up on screen? I suppose some do both though.
For the sake of making this post even longer I'll go on a tangent, since when did sex become worse than murder? The other day I was talking to my mom, and I queried: "If you had a young child what would you rather them see, two people having sex or someone getting their head smashed with a baseball bat?" She answered someone getting their head smashed with a baseball bat. What the bloody fuck? When did this happen? I'm not talking about German Goo Girls, suddenly a normal act like two people copulating is worse than graphic violence. Unbelievable.
... (BTW I read both lordofduct and VertigoXX's posts from start to finish, I'm not complaining)I had a similar strict upbringing until I was about 14 or 15 after that it was a complete free-for-all, but I've read ages 1-12 are the most important ages for molding your kids into the little do-good twat that you want them to be so for all intents and purposes I had the same type of upbrining. I have a nasty case of "Social Anxiety Disorder" I'm told that that particular ailment begins by age 10 if you have it, and that's when it happened with me. Basically what that means is I am uncomfortable in my own skin when I'm around people. I can hang out here and chat with you all because the contact we make is minimal, but even something like voice-chat on Xbox Live is uncomfortable for me, so I always shut it off when I had Live. My justification for doing that was that it's just a bunch of idiots talking on Live and they distract me when I'm playing the game; I actually made myself believe that. So hopefully that explains why I latch onto what I consider an antisocial activity, like videogames in such an extreme way. Which takes us back to subject at hand. My parents regulated my gaming in such a strict fashion, it still has me scratching my head. I couldn't play videogames after 6 PM and even then, I could only play two hours if I managed to get some mroe time for it. I could only play three hours a day on weekends. If I got mad at a game I had to "take a break" which meant stop for the day. I couldn't play any games like Goldeneye 007 because they "trained you to kill people". Yeah really good thinking pops, I've got this AK-47 here sitting next to my toy box that I have no idea how to use because I haven't played a fictional game that poorly simulates firing a gun. One time my dad took all my game consoles and threw the peripherals all over the room because I got a C+ on a math quiz and didn't give them back for two months because he wanted a B- or better. There was like a good few months that he hid my Sega Genesis somewhere. And back then I was nice so I let my little brother use it too, he was only 4 or 5 at the time he was all:"Where's the Sega? *sniffle* ? I replied, "I just don't know little guy, I just don't know" My parents unrational contempt for videogames made a little fat boy cry, how can anyone sleep at night knowing they made a little fat boy cry? Let's not even go into film, I didn't see a PG-13 movie until I was at least 13, I guess that's not so bad. Even when I was 17 though (my parents left me alone for the msot part, but not always) they tried to stop me from watching Scarface because of the scene of implied violence with the chainsaw. Suprisingly Takashi Miike films and Gaspar Noe's Irreversible are ok viewing material though. I could never bring a female or even regular friends to my place becuase my mom would constantly check to make sure there are no gang-bangs going on or what not. So I always had to be a bum and stay over at my friends houses (I had a few). I could go on and on
Now that whole last paragraph was just some background info on me, you could have and should have skipped through that, my real point is are those of us that had these strict, involved parents really better off? I don't know about Vertigo, but I know lordofduct isn't exactly Joe Average (although I can see him really making something out of himself). I'm 18 and going nowhere. I have no job (working on it) am going to lame community college to train for a job that I will probably be passed up in favor of sending it over to India instead of iring me. Furthermore all my friends are gone and I just sit around all day doing a whole lot of nothing. NOW, I know what everyone is thinking: Dud your post is unnecesarily long and borderline self-pitying emo banter, and I will now get on my high horse and condemn your reprehensible behavior because this is the internet and everyone is a hard-ass here. But this is not a self-pity post, I'll rise up and overcome my difficulties later this week, I'm just trying to show everyone how it doesn't matter how involved your parents were in raising you, or how much they "protected" you from evil evil violence and sex. I say let your kids do what they want within reason. Seeing two poorly rendered idiots with no genitalia screw around in the Hot Coffee Mod is not going to adversly affect anyone over age 12 same with this new game Bully. Why not teach values to your kids, like respect and integrity, instead of fumbling for the remote when a tit comes up on screen? I suppose some do both though.
For the sake of making this post even longer I'll go on a tangent, since when did sex become worse than murder? The other day I was talking to my mom, and I queried: "If you had a young child what would you rather them see, two people having sex or someone getting their head smashed with a baseball bat?" She answered someone getting their head smashed with a baseball bat. What the bloody fuck? When did this happen? I'm not talking about German Goo Girls, suddenly a normal act like two people copulating is worse than graphic violence. Unbelievable.
i had weird parents i never had set rules to follow and was never really watched. i played almost every game i wanted to but i mean there weren't too many when i was growing up that were ultra violent or had sexual content. nobody cared that i played mortal kombat i think my dad even bought me mk2 for the genesis because he saw it for cheep and just picked it up. i think i even played eternal champians with him and would show him all the fatalities it had in it.
hell i grew up almost normal besides problems that dont have anything to do with videogames or movies i'm normal.
oh and dud i have and had social anxiety also there's ways of dealing with it without going on meds that work. look into behavior modification techniques. or this seems to help get drunk and put yourself in situations that would make you have anxiety attacks just keep doing that and eventually you'll get a little better each time. eventually you'll get to a point where you're able to streak your college while drunk and not care.
hell i grew up almost normal besides problems that dont have anything to do with videogames or movies i'm normal.
oh and dud i have and had social anxiety also there's ways of dealing with it without going on meds that work. look into behavior modification techniques. or this seems to help get drunk and put yourself in situations that would make you have anxiety attacks just keep doing that and eventually you'll get a little better each time. eventually you'll get to a point where you're able to streak your college while drunk and not care.
Kuta
Staff member
Originally posted by VertigoXX@Mon, 2005-08-08 @ 04:55 PM
Even if she were still alive, I doubt she could do much about it now, beings that I *am* in my late 20's.
[post=138070]Quoted post[/post]
Hey, I'm in my late twenties and that would never stop my mother from trying to tell me how to live my life! <_<
Looks like Killer 7 might be next....
From the Killer 7 GameFAQs board:
From IGN:
Yeah... Okay.
The "sex scene" is nothing. I've seen worse in a PG-13 movie. Samantha is having sex with Harman in the scene, but they're both fully clothed, you only see Samantha's face, and hear her moaning loudly. The only part you see other than that is when she's getting off Harman's lap so Garcian can talk to him.
He's just basing off what Matt wrote in his review. He hasn't even seen the scene in question. Now with GTA, everyone had seen screenshots and movies of it in action. Utter bullshit if you ask me.
I can just see it now, they pull the GameCube version, but keep the PS2 version, due to that one being a bit censored. :rant
*Strokes his GameCube version of Killer 7 lovingly*
From the Killer 7 GameFAQs board:
From IGN:
Yeah... Okay.
The "sex scene" is nothing. I've seen worse in a PG-13 movie. Samantha is having sex with Harman in the scene, but they're both fully clothed, you only see Samantha's face, and hear her moaning loudly. The only part you see other than that is when she's getting off Harman's lap so Garcian can talk to him.
He's just basing off what Matt wrote in his review. He hasn't even seen the scene in question. Now with GTA, everyone had seen screenshots and movies of it in action. Utter bullshit if you ask me.
I can just see it now, they pull the GameCube version, but keep the PS2 version, due to that one being a bit censored. :rant
*Strokes his GameCube version of Killer 7 lovingly*
That is actually fantastic news for Capcom and Killer 7. The ESRB will uphold the rating since his claims are based on an exaggerated review, and the game will get some much needed attention. I still haven't picked it up, but I will if I get this job tomorrow.
And why doesn't the ESRB just change the terms of the M rating such that an M means "Mature 18+" that would have this Jack Thompson character off their backs for good. All the stores around me won't sell a M game to a 17 year old anyway.
And why doesn't the ESRB just change the terms of the M rating such that an M means "Mature 18+" that would have this Jack Thompson character off their backs for good. All the stores around me won't sell a M game to a 17 year old anyway.
See, I grew up in a relaxed home enviroment. The first R movie I saw was The Shining, and I was maybe 10 or 12. I was allowed to listen to what music I chose, read what I wanted, and play what I wanted. My parents grew up in the 60's and were hippies; maybe that explains it. However, my parents also stressed teaching me what was socially exceptable; how adults behave.