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Doom

Discussion in 'General' started by sheep64, Feb 1, 2002.

  1. sheep64

    sheep64 New Member

    Hi there,

    just played a nice old Doom II match with a friend and thought, yeah it´s a nice action game.

    The graphics aren´t up to date anymore but in some kind it´s the best action shooter I´ve sawn on PC (in my opinium).

    The background music is great. All looks nice dark and evil. A real nice satanic game envroiment.

    This game is real cult on PC.

    What do you think is Doom the best cult 3D shooter on PC? Did someone played the SNES version of that game?

    I ran it on ZSNES emu but it isn´t emulated well.

    It must be a hard work to port it to SNES.

    Doom 4 ever ... yeah ;)
     
  2. Cloud121

    Cloud121 Member

    #### YEAH!!! DOOM IS THE BEST!!! (In fact, I'm on a mission to own every port of Doom there ever was, so far I got the PC, Mac, and 32x versions. I need the 3DO, Jaguar, SNES, PSX, GBA and Saturn versions)

    (Edited by Cloud121 at 8:22 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)
     
  3. RadSil

    RadSil New Member

    I still play the PC version of Doom vs. friends occasionally. It's just fun, #### it!
     
  4. sheep64

    sheep64 New Member

    There´s also a nice OpenGL accelerated Doom Version for PC out. ZDOOMGL and GLDOOM, got nice 3D objects, colour light mapped textures and coronas. Looks really nice; a bit like Quake II.

    I visited ID´s homepage and saw that Doom is also out for Game Boy Advanced and soon is coming to PDA.
     
  5. eatpenguin

    eatpenguin New Member

    GL Doom is kind of sort of outdated

    ZDoom is really nice tho

    btw, yes i have played the SNES CRAP-DOOM... *shudders* 32x and jaguar ports were pretty good tho. (not that i bought either consoles; i played thm at my friend's house)
     
  6. mal

    mal Member

    The Saturn port of Doom is pretty awful.

    The frame rate is just terrible.
     
  7. Ratamahatta

    Ratamahatta Member

    the 32x port of doom had awful music, other than that the gameplay was good, snes had good music, terrible graphics and gameplay, and the saturn version was just messed, to date by the looks of it the best version of doom belonged to the jaguar.
     
  8. sheep64

    sheep64 New Member

    Doom64 the N64 version has completely different enemies and graphics.

    The SNES grafics are awful but keep in mind that the SNES is only an old 16 Bit console. I really wondered when I found the Rom in the web.

    Does anybody know if the Doom SNES cartridge use special hardware like Super FX chip or something like that?
     
  9. ExCyber

    ExCyber Staff Member

    I'm pretty sure that SNES Doom used one of the SuperFX chips, but I don't remember which. AFAIK, pretty much anything on SNES that needed to do "real" sprite scaling/rotation used an on-cart chip, because the onboard sprite hardware doesn't do scaling or rotation, and the CPU is too weak to do it in software and still calculate any reasonable amount of game logic. Anyway, SNES is capable of some pretty reasonable graphics, so if you saw crap graphics it was probably either due to the SuperFX not being very good or a cost-cutting measure so that they could use a smaller ROM.

    While we're on the subject of SNES hardware, does anyone know what SNES's sprites per scanline limit is (assuming it has one)?

    As for the best version of Doom, I haven't played them all, but I have played the Jaguar version and it's pretty decent. If you *really* want to see an exemplary port of an FPS on Jaguar though, look at Wolfenstein 3D...
     
  10. eatpenguin

    eatpenguin New Member

    as opposed to wolfenstein, doom snes does use FX chip
     
  11. Hatecrime69

    Hatecrime69 New Member

    doom is a great game :) and there is more than zdoomgl for hardware rendering on the pc, there is also doom legacy (witch i perfer over zdoomgl, more work has been done on it) and jdoom. good luck on getting all ports :)
     
  12. sheep64

    sheep64 New Member

    Hey cool, I never heard of "doom legacy" yet.

    I´m just searching a download location of it at google.

    I must give it a try.
     
  13. Hatecrime69

    Hatecrime69 New Member

  14. sheep64

    sheep64 New Member

    I just tried Doom Legacy with Doom2 wad. Pretty nice in openGL too, but I´m missing MD2 support like in ZDOOMGL. Anyway Doom Legacy seems to be a very intresting project. I visited their homepage and looked at their TO DO list.
     
  15. SegaSaturnDDR

    SegaSaturnDDR New Member

    umm.... snes does plenty of scaling and rotation without special chips in the cart, half of the lauch games featured fancy mode 7 effects, like f-zero and pilotwings. and what exactly do you thing the overworld on FF2 is?
     
  16. ExCyber

    ExCyber Staff Member

    "umm.... snes does plenty of scaling and rotation without special chips in the cart"

    Yes, that's correct, but it doesn't contradict what I said. I specifically said that I was referring to sprite scaling and rotation.

    "half of the lauch games featured fancy mode 7 effects, like f-zero and pilotwings. and what exactly do you thing the overworld on FF2 is"

    Mode 7 is a background mode, and I think that the overworld on FF4 is a scaled background. Pilotwings, BTW, uses an on-cart DSP. So does Super Mario Kart. The only game I can think of with prominent sprite scaling and rotation is Yoshi's Island, and it had a SuperFX2.
     
  17. eatpenguin

    eatpenguin New Member

    correct me if wrong but wolfensein on snes didnt use fx chip or any additional chips. and wolfenstein was all about sprite scaling. wasnt it?
     
  18. ExCyber

    ExCyber Staff Member

    It could be that Wolfenstein 3D does the sprite scaling/rotation in software, which would explain the completely crap resolution - SNES can *definitely* do better than that.

    edit: I've really got to stop lumping scaling and rotation together when talking about implmentation. IIRC, Wolf3D (on any platform) doesn't rotate sprites.

    (Edited by ExCyber at 10:22 pm on Feb. 8, 2002)
     
  19. lancastoor

    lancastoor New Member

    wolfenstein draws about 1/10th of the sprites (more correctly deemed polygons) that doom does.

    Doom has much, much more expansive environs than wolfenstein, as well as structures like stairs/elevators (ie; a 3rd dimension you have to draw).. Wolfenstein just draws walls and monsters, ignores ceilings/floors/shadows (on the PC version you could turn on ceilings/floors)

    SNES doom does use SuperFX2, or whatever the last generation of SuperFX was called.. I just know it has the fastest SuperFX chip of 'em all..

    Doom took some juice.. Would just barely run full speed on a 100 mhz 486 w/487 co-proc.. If ya doubt the juice it needs, look at the choppy framerate in the PSX port.

    And so far as doom being the greatest FPS ever, thats just ridiculous.. That's like saying the first Street Fighter was the best beat-em-up ever... SF2 bested it, which was in turn bested by SF2CE, in turn by the Alpha and VS series..

    Quake was better than doom, unreal better than quake, half life better than unreal, alien vs predators better than half life, and so on and so on... (####, a FPS is ALL about eye candy.. so dont give me that 'gameplay' drivel.. the gameplay is always 'shoot what moves')

    furthermore, IMO, Halo is better than any FPS I've ever seen on PC or any console, both in design and execution... Well worth owning an xbox for (and just think it was a launch title.. #### thats a powerful lil black box)

    PS:::

    someone said something in a thread way back.. but just to clarify, the SNES actually has relatively few titles which use extra on-cart hardware.. The SNES is capable of certain forms of sprite scaling in hardware in certain modes (for instance the stretchy bowser/ghosts in super mario world or the swooping plane in Contra 3)..

    The DSP was present in alot of titles, but hardly used.. In the case of Mario Kart it really serves as nothing more than a screwed-up copy protection: that is, it does nothing to add to the game that the SNES couldn't have done itself. F-Zero and practically every other racer/flyer uses no hardware.. It came in a couple of flavors which I'm still fuzzy about.. I know I can play pilot wings using the DSP from mario kart but not the other way around... (btw if any console-copier owners out there have any sort of definitave list about what game used what chip I'd love to read it)

    The SuperFX was a special kind of FPU which allowed for calculations used in 3d transformations (ie, to draw real 3d scenes from polygons rather than the fakey 'sprite_size = distance' type of integer math something like wolfenstein would use) This was used in polygon-based titles like StarFox, Stunt Race FX, and also for most of the funkier effects in Yoshi's Island.. It came in a few flavors too, mostly just the speed of the chip changing with each iteration..

    The SA-1, AFAIK, was a big mapper chip designed to help retrieve graphic data much faster than could be done through the normal bus.. This is still a bit of a mystery, with speculation that it actually holds game data on the chip itself.. It has some different versions, which seem to me to be wholly different chips.. Super Mario RPG uses it, and it runs lines down through the SNES bus, Dragonball Z Hyper Dimension uses it (?) but runs no such timing lines..

    The C4 (?) and others are custom chips designed by Capcom (?) and used in the MegaMan X series, and primarily add transparency effects (rain) and some other stuff. Hardly anything is known about these things. Theres something in Street Fighter Alpha 2 which is more of a giant encrypted graphics rom..

    END OF RANT

    that, in a nutshell, is the extent of extra hardware ever used in SNES games. And it really is the minority of em.. Out of the 3500 or so r-words that exist, only about 2 dozen are unplayable on a console backup device (even less on an emu since SuperFX, DSP and SA-1 are emulated)
     
  20. ExCyber

    ExCyber Staff Member

    I'm pretty sure this was directed at me, so here goes...

    1) What stretchy Bowser/ghosts in SMW? I haven't played it in ages, but I don't remember any sprite scaling effects...

    2) The plane in Contra 3 isn't a sprite. I think it's a Mode 7 background, but I'm not 100% sure.
     

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