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How does one become homeless?
- Thread starter racketboy
- Start date
In the 70s, a nut new-age psychologist decided that the best way for the mentally ill to get better is for them to interact in a "normal environment" - that being around mentally ill people is perpetuating their illness. Naturally, the government thought this was a great idea, because it saved them some money.
Hence a massive influx into society.
Depending on the location, most of them are suffering from severe mental illness, most commonly schizophrenia (usually of the paranoid or undifferentiated type).
There's a glut of them in Philly, as Ice mentioned.
When I was in Bethlehem, what was surprising was a number of people who were homeless did actually hold jobs. One woman I met actually held three... these 'McJobs' can't really support anyone (but that's for another time).
NYC is a completely different situation, interestingly enough. They have a system that allows anyone to profit. In fact, the 'homeless', depending on their talents, have rent subsidies. If you've been in any subway that has a number of artists, you can probably guess where they live (Times Square was popular (not the F side), as was 14th. Interestingly, there aren't any in the Upper East or Upper West Side - not even Morningside Heights). I suppose it's the indoctrinalization. But as a general rule, you can tell the difference between those who need money and those who are really 'demented'.
Hence a massive influx into society.
Depending on the location, most of them are suffering from severe mental illness, most commonly schizophrenia (usually of the paranoid or undifferentiated type).
There's a glut of them in Philly, as Ice mentioned.
When I was in Bethlehem, what was surprising was a number of people who were homeless did actually hold jobs. One woman I met actually held three... these 'McJobs' can't really support anyone (but that's for another time).
NYC is a completely different situation, interestingly enough. They have a system that allows anyone to profit. In fact, the 'homeless', depending on their talents, have rent subsidies. If you've been in any subway that has a number of artists, you can probably guess where they live (Times Square was popular (not the F side), as was 14th. Interestingly, there aren't any in the Upper East or Upper West Side - not even Morningside Heights). I suppose it's the indoctrinalization. But as a general rule, you can tell the difference between those who need money and those who are really 'demented'.
Originally posted by MTXBlau@Nov 25, 2003 @ 05:57 PM
But as a general rule, you can tell the difference between those who need money and those who are really 'demented'.
Yeah, if you find yourself in a situation where you're questioning if a person is going to use the money for drugs or for food, chances are that person is not the type that needs the money for survival.
I do some community work at a soup kitchen and we get all kinds of people coming in. Some are obviously poor/homeless while others seem very well off.
I met a man once and had a very long and interesting convorsation with him over soup. He was holding a job as a secretary somewhere and just hadnt made enough money to have a house so he lived out of his torus. Really nice guy. Just because he didnt have a home didn't mean he was insane or anything.
Then again, there are also the people who are just whoring soup because they cant e bothered to pay for food and it's obvious who those people are.
I met a man once and had a very long and interesting convorsation with him over soup. He was holding a job as a secretary somewhere and just hadnt made enough money to have a house so he lived out of his torus. Really nice guy. Just because he didnt have a home didn't mean he was insane or anything.
Then again, there are also the people who are just whoring soup because they cant e bothered to pay for food and it's obvious who those people are.
Who hasn't wanted to just run away from it all? Freedom, Uhuru, it is our most cherished concept in times of trouble.
Some people have such fucked up lives because of abuse from others, drugs, personal emotional blocks... they can't fit in. They escape society.
Once your out, you can't easily get back in. It is not that they CANNOT work, but they cannot work consistently. You can't hold a job if you can't regularly bathe, or heard imaginary voices, or fear the abuse of others.
Sensitivity is our greatest state. Be kind, at least in your thoughts about such victims.
Some people have such fucked up lives because of abuse from others, drugs, personal emotional blocks... they can't fit in. They escape society.
Once your out, you can't easily get back in. It is not that they CANNOT work, but they cannot work consistently. You can't hold a job if you can't regularly bathe, or heard imaginary voices, or fear the abuse of others.
Sensitivity is our greatest state. Be kind, at least in your thoughts about such victims.
Hmm.. the lack of understanding and sympathy in this thread is wondrous.
I don't know the laws in the US, but I'm sure it's a similar situation to here where you end up in a vicious circle. You can't get a job if you don't have a permanent address and you can't get a permanent address if you don't have a job.
I'll nearly always give people who ask money, if they're honest about it. You get plenty of people who'll say they need money for a train or something when it's clearly not true. By the same token, this guy once came up to me and my mates and said 'Can you spare any money so I can buy drugs?', which we appreciated so much we all emptied our pockets. The high and mighty will no doubt scoff at that, but if I was sleeping in doorways and putting up with the crap people give the homeless every day, I'd sure as hell want something to take my mind off it for a little while whether it was good for me or not.
Don't you have anything like the Big Issue in the US? If you could see the hundreds of people working their arses off in such a humiliating way every day, there's no way you could accuse them of being lazy. They probably work harder every day than any of us ever have in our lives..
I don't know the laws in the US, but I'm sure it's a similar situation to here where you end up in a vicious circle. You can't get a job if you don't have a permanent address and you can't get a permanent address if you don't have a job.
I'll nearly always give people who ask money, if they're honest about it. You get plenty of people who'll say they need money for a train or something when it's clearly not true. By the same token, this guy once came up to me and my mates and said 'Can you spare any money so I can buy drugs?', which we appreciated so much we all emptied our pockets. The high and mighty will no doubt scoff at that, but if I was sleeping in doorways and putting up with the crap people give the homeless every day, I'd sure as hell want something to take my mind off it for a little while whether it was good for me or not.
Don't you have anything like the Big Issue in the US? If you could see the hundreds of people working their arses off in such a humiliating way every day, there's no way you could accuse them of being lazy. They probably work harder every day than any of us ever have in our lives..
Yes a lot of ppl are just incredibly unlucky and work there asses off in an endless cycle. And a lot of them don't have any family or anything to help them get back on their feet. I hope to god that never happens to me.
Someone asked about giving them money above, and I'd have to say I would never do that. If I had money to give it would go to an organization or something. If you want to give somebody money to eat with, just give them the food and then you know that the money is going to a worthy cause. There used to be this guy with one leg in a wheelchair that begged for money in front of the local walmart. It looked like he really needed it, and maybe he did. But a lot of ppl would talk about seeing him in a bar a couple of blocks away drinking it up for hours on end. I doubt that the ppl who gave him money intended for it to be spent like that.
Someone asked about giving them money above, and I'd have to say I would never do that. If I had money to give it would go to an organization or something. If you want to give somebody money to eat with, just give them the food and then you know that the money is going to a worthy cause. There used to be this guy with one leg in a wheelchair that begged for money in front of the local walmart. It looked like he really needed it, and maybe he did. But a lot of ppl would talk about seeing him in a bar a couple of blocks away drinking it up for hours on end. I doubt that the ppl who gave him money intended for it to be spent like that.
In my neighborhood, there were a few homeless people. They were let out of mental institutions. I had some funny incidents with homeless people coming into my house and i didn't even know it. And some are illegal aliens that are running from somebody. But usually they do have mental problems.
There are of course genuine people in need. However there is a group (can't really say how big it is or what percentage of the homeless population they a make up) that in fact beg for money for profit. Depending on location some of these people can make the equivalent of $30-50 an hour. That's more than more than 60% of the people who actually hold a job. And they of course don't pay taxes on any of it. I've seen several stories about some high profile "homeless" people in my city who basically make a living this way then at night go home to their nice homes.
That's the main reason why I NEVER give money to anyone on the street. If anything I give some to organizations that then use that money to help people. It's safer that way and I know that the money I give is going to actually help someone, instead of paying off their morgage or the next bottle of vodka.
That's the main reason why I NEVER give money to anyone on the street. If anything I give some to organizations that then use that money to help people. It's safer that way and I know that the money I give is going to actually help someone, instead of paying off their morgage or the next bottle of vodka.
Originally posted by gameboy900@Nov 26, 2003 @ 09:53 PM
There are of course genuine people in need. However there is a group (can't really say how big it is or what percentage of the homeless population they a make up) that in fact beg for money for profit. Depending on location some of these people can make the equivalent of $30-50 an hour. That's more than more than 60% of the people who actually hold a job. And they of course don't pay taxes on any of it. I've seen several stories about some high profile "homeless" people in my city who basically make a living this way then at night go home to their nice homes.
That's the main reason why I NEVER give money to anyone on the street. If anything I give some to organizations that then use that money to help people. It's safer that way and I know that the money I give is going to actually help someone, instead of paying off their morgage or the next bottle of vodka.
eek -- that's bad
I hope they feel guilty
the last lady I gave money too was working with another guy and they had licences for it and everything. It was to raise money for their local shelter.
I felt better about that since it seemed more offical
Where I grew up, the majority of homeless people were there because of alcohol. They would sit under the bridges spraying lysole into cans then fill them with water.
NYC is an anomaly. I remember a story were a couple of reporters, don't remember if it was TV or paper, decided to research how much they could make on the streets. To their surprise, they made more on the streets than in their regular reporter jobs.
NYC is an anomaly. I remember a story were a couple of reporters, don't remember if it was TV or paper, decided to research how much they could make on the streets. To their surprise, they made more on the streets than in their regular reporter jobs.
I hope they feel guilty
Hell no they don't. Con men don't give a crap what they do, as long as they make out on top and don't get caught. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise, lest you be their next target.
MHO, the number one cause of homelessness is alcoholism. Unfortunately, there is no real effective treatment for that affliction.
No treatment for alcoholism? Sure is: AA. Go to a meeting and get some support. But you'll only get out of it what you put into it. It's an illness, I have friends who have it (who don't know it, or know it and just aren't getting help).
The cause for homelessness? There is no one cause. I think that alcohol and drugs are a large part of many cases. Mental illness is certainly to blame for others. I'm sure there are more than a fair share of homeless people who were dumped on the street because family members didn't want to or couldn't take care of them.
ExCyber is right, most people still think mental illness is something you can just adjust and shake off. Let me tell you, that's FAR from the truth. Now I'll fully admit that drugs are far too overperscribed (i.e. ritalin for ADHD) but they do help. You wouldn't blame someone for having an illness like MS, would you? Is that a character flaw they can just shrug off? No. And neither is schizophrenia, depression, etc. People need help. How many homeless people are just lazy? I'm thinking hardly any. Unless they're a conman.
That said, I don't give money to homeless people. I don't know what their situation is and have no way of knowing if they're going to buy food or more crack. If a homeless person wants "money for food," go buy him some food and give it to him. If that's what you want to do anyway. Or give to local charities who make sure the money is used for something positive.
Originally posted by Myname@Nov 26, 2003 @ 09:39 AM
Hmm.. the lack of understanding and sympathy in this thread is wondrous.
I don't know the laws in the US, but I'm sure it's a similar situation to here where you end up in a vicious circle. You can't get a job if you don't have a permanent address and you can't get a permanent address if you don't have a job.
I'll nearly always give people who ask money, if they're honest about it. You get plenty of people who'll say they need money for a train or something when it's clearly not true. By the same token, this guy once came up to me and my mates and said 'Can you spare any money so I can buy drugs?', which we appreciated so much we all emptied our pockets. The high and mighty will no doubt scoff at that, but if I was sleeping in doorways and putting up with the crap people give the homeless every day, I'd sure as hell want something to take my mind off it for a little while whether it was good for me or not.
Don't you have anything like the Big Issue in the US? If you could see the hundreds of people working their arses off in such a humiliating way every day, there's no way you could accuse them of being lazy. They probably work harder every day than any of us ever have in our lives..
Uh where did we say we thought the homeless were lazy?
Sometimes people are given a rough life and homelessness is what results in it, there truly are cases when it's not a matter of laziness.
The worst part is you can't tell who amongst them are actually homeless not by choice. One thing to remember, it's homeless, not broke. There's *plenty* of people who are homeless but probably have more cash than any of us, they just chose to be homeless.
There's also the classic conmen. I know someone who was curious and actually peddled for a day. Made a few hundred bucks in a day...now if you could make that just one day out of the week it's not hard to see why some of them beg.
If you want to help someone who needs money for food, offer to buy them some food or give them something from your lunch. I bet you more than half the time they'll turn you down...
The worst part is you can't tell who amongst them are actually homeless not by choice. One thing to remember, it's homeless, not broke. There's *plenty* of people who are homeless but probably have more cash than any of us, they just chose to be homeless.
There's also the classic conmen. I know someone who was curious and actually peddled for a day. Made a few hundred bucks in a day...now if you could make that just one day out of the week it's not hard to see why some of them beg.
If you want to help someone who needs money for food, offer to buy them some food or give them something from your lunch. I bet you more than half the time they'll turn you down...
Originally posted by Quadriflax@Nov 26, 2003 @ 07:15 AM
If a homeless person wants "money for food," go buy him some food and give it to him. If that's what you want to do anyway. Or give to local charities who make sure the money is used for something positive.
I do give to a lot of charities, and homeless people that are visibly crippled (I dunno, more sympathy?). Anyway, that isn't the point.
One day in NYC on my daily commute (three connections!) a "homeless" person walked into the car, and asked for money to buy food; he hadn't eaten in days/weeks, blah blah. A woman said she had no money, but offered him her uneaten bagel. He looked at it and said, "uhh...nah..." laughed nervously, and walked away. She asked "are you sure?" and he simply said "yeah" and continued asking for money. Needless to say he didn't get any.
As an unrelated note, I don't think there is a lack of sympathy (on this board / in this thread) for these people. Maybe a few ruins it for the truly deprived? I don't know. There is some good money in begging, sadly enough, and there are those who do exploit it.
Originally posted by Gallstaff@Nov 27, 2003 @ 11:31 AM
Uh where did we say we thought the homeless were lazy?
others are just plain LAZY
Uh, here.
I thought most homeless people were homeless not because they can't work, but because its far easier just to give up and beg for money
Uh, and here.
if they are homeless they are just to lazy to work, screw them
Uh, and here.
Uh, and a fair few other less explicit examples. Uh
I read the first page of this post and could not believe how much shit was being talked. "most homeless people are insane" - BULLSHIT. If you're insane, you're in a secure home. End of story. It's not like they keep some insane people inside whilest other are free to roam with the public. Use some common sense. In actual fact, the number one cause of homelessness is heartbreak. That's not bullshit, and educated guess or specualtion, it's fact. Bleh, insane... *shakes head*
Also, remember, when you see a homeless person drinking, taking drugs etc. It is becuase they are homless, it's not what made them homeless. If you were stranded out side all day, with no possetions, no family and very few people whom even care about you, wouldn't you need a little escapism?
Also, I can assure you that it is A LOT easier to hold down a shit 9 - 5 job than to spend weeks outside begging for enough money just to eat.
Whoa, I hear where you're coming from, but seriously, I think it's alcoholism that leads to a lot of the heartbreak in the first place. A lot of people have lot their jobs by not being able to stay sober, and a lot of people have been kicked out by their lovers for the same reason. I'm not saying it's the only reason why people are on the street, but it is a big one IMHO.
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