mod chip for saturn (old)

G

gollum

Hi,

im looking for any site/people/mafia :) that could sell me a mod chip for old 20 pin saturn.

i have some schemes/instructions to do a version 7.0 or 9.0 modchip work for my saturn BUT i cant find any place to obtain them, all modchips for saturn seems to be the latest version (9.5) only for 21 pin saturn :(

Well, if anybody has any information just tell me plz.

Thanks!
 
I

iluid

It sucks, but as far as I know 20 pin mods are just about impossible to get. Also if you do manage to find one it won't be cheap. Your best bet is to just buy a pre-modded 21pin Saturn since they're much easier to find and the cost won't be much higher than a 20pin chip.
 
G

gollum

That solution doesnt fix anything.

Perhaps its better to keep swaping cause my saturn is 2 swap model with access led :) When it brokes i will buy a new one ;-)
 
3

3rdman

DO NOT BUY FROM VIDEOGAMECOMPANY.COM! It is not a 20 pin mod board...I've made the mistake of buying from these people and, well, they lied. That mod-chip is for a 21 pin Saturn, trust me.
 
G

gollum

Yep,

i contacted videogamecompany and they told me they havent any instructions to make their modchip work in a 20 pin saturn ........ thank you anyway

well, i think that 100 $ its a lot ......... i'll wait for a hacked bootdisc or i will buy a new saturn (21 pin of course) ;-)
 
IceDigger

IceDigger

Founder
Staff member
most model 1's are 20 pin, all model 2's are 21 pin. to be totally safe (there was a small run of model 2's with 21 pin in model 1 cases), open it up and count the number of pins on the ribbon cable going into the cd unit.
 
M

mal

Established Member
Not all Model 2 Saturns are the same either.

Assuming you get a Modboard requiring soldering (can you still get solderless ones?), some Model 2s need you to solder to a 64 pin chip whereas others to a 16 pin chip.

16 pins are much easier...
 
G

gollum

Sorry, i meant looking into my saturn.

btw, is it that difficult to do a modchip? I think that to do clones of an old 20 pin modchip is quite easy, if you locate the correct components and dump the rom of course.

I also would like some detailed board schemes 'cause im sure that a new modboard can be adapted for an old one. Hey, there were some mods that worked in both 20 and 21 pin, so it can be done.

Anybody has urls of "howto de a modchip" ??? Or simply schemematics of modboard and dumps?? Those korean people must learn from somewhere!
 
E

ExCyber

Staff member
The modboards I've seen pictures of (have yet to get one since I also have a 20-pin system) have some combination of a PIC microcontroller and one or two SPLDs such as a PAL/GAL. PIC microcontrollers can be programmed so that their programs can't be dumped (there is always a way, but it could end up requiring chemical baths and an electron microscope from what I've heard). PAL/GAL devices can't really be protected, but that's because there's no way to read the device either; the best that can be hoped for to "dump" one AFAIK is to build a device to do a bruteforce analysis of it based on the gate layout... I don't think that this is impossible, but I wouldn't count on it producing results either.

If we're lucky, someone forgot to set the code protection bit burning the PIC on a run of boards, and someone is willing to risk their 20-pin modboard to dump it. Also, it might be possible to erase just the code protection bits on a windowed PIC (the kind that can be erased with UV light and reprogrammed), but I doubt that it's reasonably easy.

As for where the manufacturers learn how to do it, they probably design, make, and attach a "middleman" (possibly similar to the end product) that allows them to monitor the data moving between the CD reader and main board, and utilize that to figure out how to recognize and fake a read of the security ring. Either that or they get leaked tech docs or something :).
 
M

Mo Threat

As ExCyb just stated, it's not a modchip - it's a modboard - lotsa nondumpable components. We're not talking the simple PSX thing here.
 
G

gollum

well, that's ok. Making a modboard from zero is dificult and costly ...... but what about adapting one to fit 20 pin? As i wrote before, there were modboards compatible with both kind of saturns so i bet a 21 pin "brand new" one could also be adapted.

I have some experience with electronics and pic boards/chips, mainly the 16c/f series. i know that the "c" chip had a bug that allowed people to dump protected chips. Also, i read years ago from a student that had a method to dump "f" series.

If a pic from those boards can be dumped the work is done, if not, an aditional interface to pc (for example) had to be done to capture bus data. I don't have any experience doing this kind of reverse engineering but i believe it cant be very dificult because modchips apear for all kind of platforms.
 
E

ExCyber

Staff member
I don't think it's likely to be extremely difficult, but as with most tech (and probably most non-tech) projects it's a matter of finding the right combination of skill, intent, and equipment.

If someone can dump the contents of the PIC, even from a 21-pin board, that would probably go a long way to figuring out the details of the protection, since the security signature can probably be found in the PIC program. I suspect that the SPLDs are only there to let the PIC take over the CD interface when it needs to, so maybe (that's maybe) those don't necessarily need to be analyzed...
 
E

ExCyber

Staff member
Buying a new Saturn and 21-pin board is a fine solution for the time being, but there's nothing to guarantee that 21-pin mods won't join 20-pin mods in obscurity once the (percieved) demand gets below a certain level, so I think it's not necessarily a waste of time to give the problem some thought. However, there is a slight chance that my interest in this might fall off a bit once I get some money and pick up a pre-modded V-Saturn :).
 
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