saturn MYST help (crashing constantly) strange problem

UPDATE - bought a pal version of the game and it still crashes at the exact same part,it allows me to press one of the 8 buttons on the console for power to the rocket ship,as soon as i press another one i get "cpu address error"
i tried saving the game after pressing one button and loading back up but it crashes as soon as i press another button,i am starting to think there is something wrong with my new saturn,i have tried about 45 saturn games and while not playing them throughout,i have never not once had a single crash,some of my games are about 10 years old and are cdr's that went through two house moves and lay about in plastic bags with no protection and they load and work fine even with multiple scratches,the discs all load up very quickly and with no obvious sound from the drive that it struggles,quick track movement from the drive is the only sound i hear,no skimming sound from the disc trying to be read.

myst versions i have tried are
pal
ntsc-j
ntsc-u
pal original

All crash at the exact same place,i have a gray mk1 saturn and use the gray mk1 (new style) controller,i also have black mk2 new style controllers and have tried them too,the reason i bring up the controller is that when i got this saturn,the controllers would not work,only after i switched the console off and reinserted the controllers did they work however this was after about the 5th attempt ! but after that they work every single time,i get the feeling that something isn't right about this and from reading about cpu address errors,i read someone state that the controller port can have something to do with saturn crashes,i have however cleaned the entire console including the ports and the lens and it's all still the same.

I also read from one person that they released an updated version of myst to fix this exact bug but that's just one person on a forum saying this,i have not found any real proof of this,i looked at the versions and see only one revision.

I would very much appreciate any help/info about this,it pisses me off as myst and riven were the games i was most looking forward to playing on saturn,i own these games on pc and those too crash due to compatibility,i hoped and expected the trusty saturn to actually just play the game without the crap but apparently not,the saturn is where i first played myst and it's where i want to play it now,so thanks but no thanks to any suggestions for playing it by other means as i already know about them and quite frankly i want to get to the bottom of this problem.

thanks

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Hi,i signed up here simply to seek help with a problem i have,i have a model 1 japan saturn gray+oval button first revision edition saturn,i do not have any issues with any other games apart from myst,i am using a back up of the usa ntsc version and it will crash as soon as i try to enter the volt amount into the machine where it should be i think 59volts for the space ship,i can click 1 button and as soon as i click another button it will crash and give me code all over the screen,i then tried burning a pal and a jap version of myst and all three versions crash,i tried downloading a different source of the usa iso,and i even found my 10+ year old copy of the game in cdr from when i once owned a saturn and that too crashes at the same part soi i have in total 4 myst cdrs and i tried a different burner and also lowering to x8 speed and they all crash.

I want to now just buy myst as i am getting back into the saturn console again and i will be buying the games i enjoy the most,myst and riven are top of my list but now i am thinking that this issue is a very strange one,i really do not understand and to make matters worse,the bug is not present on ssf emulator via the disc inserted in my pc,this crash happens on this saturn if i disc swap,or if i use the mod chip and i have a 5in1 ar and it also crashes with that if i use an untouched iso and leave its region original.

I am at a loss with it,it will crash every single time at the same part but not anywhere else that i have tried so far,any help would be great and i want to go ahead and buy the game but will it work ? or is it that this model of saturn has a problem with this game ? i tried the japan version all in jap text and it also crashes at the same place,really weird.

help !

thanks
 
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Hi,don't have another saturn,i did just now check both power and focus and they were set to what i think from looking at their rotation and position were at centre on both pots,i then tried both independently a quarter left and right and testing but the saturn seemed to not behave any differently,was still reading discs as quick as you would imagine,the focus pot at full left and right really didn't make much difference at all,i also tried seek on track and it was very quick and not skipping,fading or scratching.

I am at a total loss with it,i kind of a know what i am doing around the saturn as i have had them years ago,it's been 10 or so years but it all comes back quickly,i am betting that the discs i have do indeed work,i had one from 10 years ago that was in my collection and i would have binned it if it had not worked and then there's the original one i have now.

The thing that really gets me is that this very much doesn't look like a cd or drive issue,it looks like a hardware/bios issue,the game plays fine and i can hear it load each screen up without any issues at all,it's very quick,as quick as the pc version to be honest,once i get down into the generator room,there isn't much disc loading,the disc loading is done after the door opens and then when you move onward to the panel and it all sounds quick and responsive on the drive just like anywhere else in the game,at that point there is no more data to load and the drive idles with the disc spinning like it should,i click on a button and it loads up the generator sound and it seems perfectly normal,as soon as i click on any other button it hangs instantly,if i click two buttons quick,the first is fine and the second hangs instantly.

I think i have tried too many different discs also versions and also burning at different speeds to rule the disc to blame and the drive loads each and every one of the 48/54 saturn games i have without any issue at all,i have played them all to a degree,i have a few fmv games like roadavenger and cobra command and some porno one with girls that strip to the rock scissor paper game and there is absolutely no hitch at all with these games so i really don't think it's the drive.

I very much think it's the hardware but it does seem to work very very well,i have not had any problems at all with it,so i am left lost wondering if there is in fact another revision of myst that i could try but also thinking that there may be some truth in what i read about the first version/rev of myst being incompatible with early model 1 saturn hardware,i would really like to find out.
 
What i have found now that i have messed with the pots is that a few of the myst discs that i burned do not work/no spin/load,specifically the 3 myst discs that do work are all pal versions,my old pal burn,a new pal burn and the original
the japan and usa ones do not load,everything else so far is loading up without issue and that's telling me two things.

1.my pal burns were good burns yet they have the bug so it "could be" pal version myst has a bug with my jap saturn or that the lens is picking the game up good but also gives me the bug
2.japan and usa versions where the pots were at original position did load and boot with what seems to be no issue at all but do still crash at the same place with the bug

the reason i continued to test all discs again was that i read about some games having compatibility issues and then found that i could try booting to the cd player and then putting the game disc in and loading it up,at this stage i found all three pal discs to boot and crash with bug however the two ntsc ones seem like overly bad burns as they do not get past the cd player,this DOES tell me that with those discs at least,i didn't burn them good enough,i did try a few different methods of burning when i had these issues so those two discs were burned with nero or with 4x on a different drive,one thing is sure,those burns are bad.

this then brings me back to thinking,i should at least now stick to the ntsc versions and try and burn both at the best possible speed and compatibility,i want those to boot with the pots as they are,once i know they are good burns i can then look to see if they still crash at the known bug area,at that point i can then tune up the way on both pots using the 2x bad discs,this allows me to know exactly the direction the pots degrade or enhance,i will try then to push the pots to the limits and then back off a little and try the 2 good ntsc burns,if the bug still remains then there is little i can do apart from at least test these ntsc good burns via the cd player menu,if that also fails then im done.


sorry for all that,im using it as a bit of a log as to what i am doing,it may help others.

UPDATE

I tried a few different known isos from different regions,found that there was a v1.000 beta but can't get hold of that,every other disc including new burns of ntsc-u and ntsc-j run on the saturn in a way that seems less of a strain,i then tweaked the power/focus/and another pot a little left and right,this pot is taller and encased in metal,this one seemed to make the drive seek faster,i reverted it back to stock.

I then tried all discs without my AR cart and via the cd audio menu but they all crash at the same place,one of the isos was a bin+cue+audio track and i was praying that one would differ but unfortunately not.

I personally think that there is some kind of incompatibility with this saturn version,i am using a mod chip but i had already ended up with these problems before i installed it with a pal usa and japan burn via swap,i could uninstall the chip and try the original and it may work however it's not worth doing so if it did work,i give up,i will try and get a pal saturn loose and see if that gives the same problems,i am quite sure that the pal one will run the pal disc,if it doesn't then i will be at a loss for words lol

hate to say im giving up but there isn't much more testing i can do.
 
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vbt

Staff member
maybe you can try to run your pal cd with yabause set to ntsc mode and see if the bug happen, last test would be to run the game with a 50hz switch
would it be possible to softmod saturn 50/60hz in pseudosaturn kai ?
 
I did try on ssf with one of the backups and it worked perfectly via my pc cdrom.

Im using a chip and AR cart,i have been thinking about and wanting to do a 50hz on the ntsc saturn but i can't find enough info on it,i have done a few pal ones in the past with ease but i can't find any solid info for the japan mk1 gray 1st rev saturn,there are a few reasons i would like to do this as the pal versions of many saturn games are the better versions of the games,it's what i was used to until deciding to get a japan console this time around and must admit that i don't like it's 60hz performance vs a pal modded 60hz,i know that sounds silly as what i have now is the true speed but if i run a pal game on this saturn,i am noticing smooth and then a jump then smooth framerates across the board on many saturn pal games yet on the pal modded 60 you just get a smoother running game that almost seems to be overclocked just past the correct speed,also what i have noticed is the lack of border range when running a pal game on the ntsc machine,it's not with every game as some games that were optimised to have absolutely no border at all like sega rally do still cut the screen at the bottom,yet many other near full screen pal games on the ntsc machine seem to keep the borders as is and adjust the framerate but not in the same way as the pal machine,it's a bit weird and i wasn't expecting it otherwise i would have went for the pal mk1.

It seems to me at least that the pal 60 modded gives the full option of proper pal speeds that are important for those optimised and bug fixed pal games that are desirable and something i am used to like a very stable nights into dreams at 50hz where i have the ntsc-j original and running on the japan machine there are quite bad framerates throughout the game,i wasn't expecting that at all,and if i run the pal version forced 60hz there are bugs and the gameplay is too fast much like sega rally,some games simply control too quick while others like daytona usa are very much enhanced running in pal 60hz.

I think for now i will try and grab a cheap loose mk1 pal,i am sure i am correct about the speed issues but i will mod it for 60hz and find out for sure,if i am right then i think it's best to sell the japan model and buy a nice boxed pal mk1 as a swap over,im sure myst will run on it,it will be really weird if it doesn't !

Thanks for your ideas !
 
UPDATE

Tried a pal sega saturn and the pal game crashes $£%& !!! so now i am very confused as the disc looks fine,i can't test the burns on the pal console as it's non modded,i then decided to test my pal original in ssf once again instead of the backup,doesn't crash,i then noticed that in the machine room,when i click on the first button on the saturn console,it seems to play the audio for the machine but i hear it skip,stop and restart then go silent,after that point,it crashes when i press another button,it also crashes or gives a black screen if i walk away with one button pressed,it will crash maybe a few screens later so i am thinking that the console has a problem reading the disc.

I conclude that none of the discs are to blame,the sega saturn console laser or drive on both my jap and now the pal systems are just not strong enough to read this data properly,i can't be anything else,yet both these saturn consoles are playing games no problem at all,i am playing through magic knight and riven without issues at all and all other games are working fine including fmv games.

Does anyone know of a good tutorial for the saturn pots for the lens ? i would like to know what each and every pot does on the console so i can possibly tune them better and get myst reading properly.

thanks for reading through !

Paddy
 
spent an hour or so tuning both saturn's to the point where i had them a little quicker than what you would call stock saturn read speeds yet without the skimming associated with pushing the power to lens too much,by this point i have both saturn's booting to the game (black sega logo) near instant and track selection via the cd player menu skipping tracks practically instantly in any disc section,tested once more with thunderstorm fx (cdr) and both saturn's play that game absolutely fine,im actually quite good at that game and can play it well it was well tested.

My vcd card arrived and i have tried a few vcds also without any issue what so ever,i am very impressed with the saturn overall

On the subject of myst - i had a good look at the pal original and yes it does have some lite surface scratches,it's nothing that i would call damaging but then i could be wrong,i have also burnt myst again after opening/stripping my pc disc burner drive and thoroughly cleaning it and using 95% alcohol on the lens as a last ditch attempt and burned at 4x with that drive as my other drive doesn't write lower than x16 - myst crashed again with the exact same issue,ohh i also used a different cdr media and used alcohol to burn it.

I can only come to the conclusion that the pal disc is bad,and my burns are in some way not working with this the one and only saturn game thus far out of around 50 odd games,and the myst game has now been burned 7 times using alcohol,nero 2 different pc writers,2 different cdr media and under x16 x8 x4 & x24 using three different sources for the isos,one of those being the usa darkwater iso untouched.

If anyone can let me know if possibly myst is a special case and requires a different method of burning then i would be into trying,currently i am thinking about buying the japan version of myst as it's cheap,im not happy playing the game this way if it did work but it would then let me know that there is a problem with how i am burning this game at least due to me already burning the japan version and getting the same crash screen,however i would like to know if there is a way that i could burn making a 1-1 copy so i know i have a good burn,i have diskjuggler and find that to be the most accurate for burning discs,i have used it for myst but without knowing the settings then there is no use.

--UPDATE--

I stripped my saturn drive and greased the gears,central pole,track and also the spindle,i also pulled up the spindle a little and i finally detuned the power back to stock as i didn't want to keep it running higher than normal,i also tried again another burn using other media at x8 on my liteon drive (drive can burn speed dependant on the disc media) however i decided to rip my pal disc and also burn both the pal rip and the usa one i have but i used imgburn instead under strict settings,both discs failed :(

I decided to mute the tv and pay close attention to the saturn drive activity and noticed that in myst,when you click to go forward (load the next screen) the saturn drive can be heard doing a fast upspin/read and then another upspin/read once the screen is loaded,this happens on each screen you move through in myst however .. in some cases there is a delay on the second upspin/read by what seems like a glitch around 5/8 seconds,if i wait it will eventually spin again and the access light will flash to show data is being output.

I seem to be getting a slight randomisation in this,there are certain screens that will always pause and wait before doing the second spin,i now know the screens that do this however they do not do this (every other) time,sometimes these screens will load as normal and other times they will again pause,there might not be anything in this however,on the screen where i get the crash,i hear it do the first load up spin and then nothing,the disc just spins as if trying to seek and stays doing that,then if i press a button,it again spins (but by this time i think the data from the disc to the saturn has been messed up and on the second time i press another button the saturn hangs with the error screen full of junk code.

I may be looking into this too far i don't know,however there is no way on earth my saturn would give this error every single time without fail ever with 10 different discs,there would be crashes elsewhere,my saturn is loading up every single game without fail and without error,it's playing vcds no problem at all and some have a few light surface scratches,some of my older backups that i still have from 10 years ago work perfectly fine and those are in bad condition,i have tried every single thing with the hardware itself and also another saturn console yet all 10 discs will crash at this exact spot in the game,three different regions of the game have been used and many different burning methods.

I hate to give up,i never let something get the better of me but this one i can't explain at all,i also don't want to spend more money on cdr's or originals,the pal game cost me £15 and i am tempted to buy another,i also want to buy the japan version just to see even tho it would be next to useless to me,i did think about getting the japan version and if it did work,i could save right after entering the correct power settings where the game would normally crash but unfortunately the save files are not compatible with each other.

I also was thinking,is there any way i could get a working save file somehow onto my saturn or my Ar cart (i dont have the ar with serial port) or burn onto a cd or something ? then i could at least bypass this problem,it pisses me off that i can't play this game on my saturn,i love this game,i half bought a saturn so i could play through myst,i have myst on many other devices but lol i want it on my saturn and quite frankly is annoys me that it doesn't work.

I ask any and all that know alot about the saturn,are you able to run myst past this error,could you please go to this area in the game and tell me if your saturn spins up twice after you open the door and then does it also spin up twice again once you enter the room where you can see the switches ? (i do read other people have myst crashing) but not in the way that it will happily run the game and allow you to walk everywhere for hours but then crash every single time at this place.

I just wish i knew what the problem was,it would save me a lot of hassle,anyway,thanks for reading all that lot ! i give up,nothing left i can try really apart from buying another saturn and another copy of the game but that's not something i even want to do for obvious reasons.




Thanks for reading.
 
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SegaSaturnShrine

Established Member
Perhaps this game has some sort of special anti-modchip or other copy protection on it that most other games don't? It would be the first I've heard of it with Saturn games, but this was quite common on the original Playstation. That's the only thing I can really think of that's left. Either there's a very specific way you have to burn this, or its just detecting the method you're using to boot it....
 
Perhaps this game has some sort of special anti-modchip or other copy protection on it that most other games don't? It would be the first I've heard of it with Saturn games, but this was quite common on the original Playstation. That's the only thing I can really think of that's left. Either there's a very specific way you have to burn this, or its just detecting the method you're using to boot it....


Was tried on the pal saturn unmodded and no Ar cart inserted and gave the same crash,i have bought and waiting on the japan version of myst,i thought what the hell as it's cheap,if it works then i will just have to enjoy atrus speaking in japanese lol but at least i can play the game and i understand how the game works anyway,shame about the non transferable game saves,especially as some saturn games do allow the same save file to work under different regions of the same game but myst doesn't,maybe a disc swap after entering the correct power code in the game and then saving ?

Yep,i really find this one a strange problem,it's not mod chip or Ar cart related,and i am getting failed burns no matter the method,bare in mind that the pal unmodded machine crashed with the original pal disc,that disc "could be bad" i may have just got very unlucky with it,and that my 10x burns are also bad lol it's madness ! the only thing i can think of for sure is that saturn myst has been reported to crash in a few places on many regions,here in the uk and in the US,people have complained about it crashing and the area that crashes for me every single time without fail is one of the places that people report to crash however they also report that it's just a random thing.

I would imagine that the myst disc needs to be absolute MINT condition and possibly the 4 different rips i have burned are not 100% accurate,however 10 years ago when i had a saturn,myst was a game that i owned,i also burned a copy and i am sure it worked,i still have that burn and i get that crash,possibly early system incompatibility with model 1 saturn,back then i had a model 1 and a model 2,my memory isn't great and possibly myst gave me problems back then ? i really don't know,it's very strange,all i can hope for is that the japan original version is in good condition when i get it and that it works,if not then there is nothing left i can do apart from buy maybe a model 2 pal saturn lol that won't happen tho,i will give up,hate giving up but no much left.

Thanks for reading and your input !

Paddy
 
Finally received a japan version of the game,game crashes as per :( i may try removing mod chip and action replay but i am sure it will still crash.

I think the only thing left to blame this on is a failing saturn drive,both the japan and pal mk1 models are old,the drives play games without issue but i can only guess that they are not good enough for myst,i could run the game and tune as much as possible trying to look for a sweet spot where the game "might" work but that would be alot of trial and error,crashing and then restarting and i am not up for that,i have had two electric shocks in my life,both gave me a fright,both were sega saturns,one was 10 years ago and one was a month ago !

game over for this i think/
 

SegaSaturnShrine

Established Member
well maybe you could run the game in an emulator and get past the troublesome portion, save it, transfer the save to your saturn (if you have the means to do so) and load it up and continue the game from there? *shrugs*
 
well maybe you could run the game in an emulator and get past the troublesome portion, save it, transfer the save to your saturn (if you have the means to do so) and load it up and continue the game from there? *shrugs*

I had thought about this before but then forgot about it when trying out all the other stuff,i looked into it this morning and couldn't get rock n B stuff working or the atlus boot due to requiring x86 pc cpu to compile however i found that pskai boot disc has a memory manager save manager built in and opened the iso in winiso and put a fresh myst save file with just the engine room activated,burnt the disc and the saves did not transfer to my saturn,i then read that while using ssf emulator,the option (HOOK BACKUP LIBRARY) should NOT be ticked,then restarting the emu and setting up internal memory would give a more accurate save file for transfer to the saturn console.

I did this and copied the bin file (internal memory.bin) created and located in the ssf folder to the saves folder within the kei iso using winiso,burnt and the save transfered fine and works !,i made a back up of this save file to my ARP for future use as a near blank save file.

I tested and no crashes thus far,i will update this if and when i complete the game (fingers crossed) to let anyone else know that this will help them with this game and any others that might give this strange error.

A big thank you to SegaSaturnShrine for giving me this idea !!!!!!!! thank you thank you !!!!!!!
 

SegaSaturnShrine

Established Member
I had thought about this before but then forgot about it when trying out all the other stuff,i looked into it this morning and couldn't get rock n B stuff working or the atlus boot due to requiring x86 pc cpu to compile however i found that pskai boot disc has a memory manager save manager built in and opened the iso in winiso and put a fresh myst save file with just the engine room activated,burnt the disc and the saves did not transfer to my saturn,i then read that while using ssf emulator,the option (HOOK BACKUP LIBRARY) should NOT be ticked,then restarting the emu and setting up internal memory would give a more accurate save file for transfer to the saturn console.

I did this and copied the bin file (internal memory.bin) created and located in the ssf folder to the saves folder within the kei iso using winiso,burnt and the save transfered fine and works !,i made a back up of this save file to my ARP for future use as a near blank save file.

I tested and no crashes thus far,i will update this if and when i complete the game (fingers crossed) to let anyone else know that this will help them with this game and any others that might give this strange error.

A big thank you to SegaSaturnShrine for giving me this idea !!!!!!!! thank you thank you !!!!!!!

Glad to hear that this appears to be a good workaround for you. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it keeps working and lets you finish the game!
 

Mr^Burns

Staff member
Many applauds to Paddy for vehemently wanting to play the problematic Myst on the Saturn when it's available on many other systems, even the Atari Jaguar CD, that's the true spirit of a Saturn fan!, and recently a Laseractive prototype popped up on youtube! :)

I recommend Book of watermarks on the Psx (heathenism I know) a wonderful Japanese take on the Myst genre http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/watermarks/watermarks.htm
 
"cpu address error"

Confirmed: Upon selecting second button in Generator Room.

Myst (U) v1.001 Retail disc

Model 1 VA2 NTSC-U Console Bios v1.00a - CPU Address Error / Debug

Model 2 VA6 NTSC-U Console Bios v1.00a - No issue

error.jpg
 
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