SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

[ST Dragon]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

OK.

Which was the best console?

I say the SNES.

SNES

=====

Had the best graphics of the 3 as it could produce the most colours on screen (256) & the best scaling & rotation effects.

Also had best music produced by the cool sony spc700 sound chip set.

But had the slowest CPU (only 3.6MHZ) of the 3 consoles resulting in heavy slowdowns in some games, especially in Thunder Spirits, where as Thunder Force III on the Genesis was perfect. Rocket Night Adventures 2 on the SNES was as fast if not faster than the Genesis version though.

Some games on the SNES looked absolutely stunning compared to the Genesis & PCE.

(Mortal Kombat, Donkey Kong Country, Axelay, etc...)

PCE

====

Not a true 16bit console as it had two 8-Bit CPUs at 3.6MHZ each & a 16-Bit GPU.

Technically had the 2nd best graphics as it could produce 256 colours on screen, but had a lower colour palette (512 colours) compared to the SNES 32000 colour palette, thus games didn't look as "Live" & "crisp" as they did on the SNES.

Not many games on the PCE utilized all 256 colours though. Few that I think they did were: Street Fighter II, Strip Fighter II, Parodius, After Burner & maybe even Magical Chase & Twin Bee, but not counting SuperGrafX games. Probably the two 8-bit CPUs & the 8K Main RAM was bottle necking the system.

Also Because of it's low Main RAM only 8K! Games were not as detailed as on the Genesis & SNES, sprites had less frames & less background layers.

The music was the worse of the 3 consoles as it could only produce 6 stereo channels.

Genesis

======

Was the fastest of the 3 as it had a 68000 CPU at 7.6MHZ

Had the worse graphics of the 3 consoles. Being able to produce only 64 colours on screen out of 512 colour palette, this was the systems “Achilles’ Heel”

Games were fairly detailed though with quite a few frames of animation for the sprites & backgrounds.

Music was better than PCE but could not touch the SNES music.

Most games that were released on all 3 consoles generally looked quite worse on the Genesis compared to the PCE & SNES. (example Street Fighter II)

Also how many games on the PCE (Not SuperGrafX & DUO) actually utilized all 256 colours on screen?

The only ones I think they did are:

Street Fighter II

Strip Fighter II

Parodius

After Burner

& maybe even Magical Chase & Detana Twin Bee.

But I'm not sure...?

 

[lordofduct]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

this is SEGAXTREME... you dare ask the question. Come on'!

Of course I'd say the genny, reasons for me:

PCE: ummm, ok, I was young. I think I was the only kid in town who even knew what this thing was. I only played a few games for it and I wasn't wowed in any way. I hardly even noticed the more colors then the genny. Poor library and lack of wow power for me makes this my least favorite. I still don't own one for this reason. (as I own a lot of systems from the 80's and 90's... including the VIS)

SNES: This was the archrival against genny in my school. I remember there were clans of Nintendo supporters and Genny supporters. We would debate, fight, dodge ball to the death on which console was best. My debate was easy, SEGA in house games! no gay Marios. And all the colors made the SNES look so kiddy... way to bright. It wowed me a few times with games like F-ZERO, Donkey Kong, Mario Kart, FF3... but nothing enough to make me really want one at the time for my own. I was content with playing it at my friends. Still even today having my own SNES, I hardly play it as a majority of games on it just blew butt chunks. I do go to it for some good ol' Kirby Golf though. I LOVE KIRBY GOLF!

Genny: OWNZ YOU ALL! This was my precious... I received it when I was 8 for my birthday. I gamed on my NES up until this, and really wasn't a big gamer. I would rather play out in the woods or something. I got my Genny and it was ON! My mother couldn't peel me out of my room. I was hooked to SEGA from then on, a devoted follower. I had heard of SEGA before this at my neighbors with the SMS, I liked it but it was the Genny who swallowed me whole. Oh, and the color thing.

 

[ST Dragon]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

More colours don't mean "kiddy" games.

One can easily notice that in Doom Troopers, Ninja Warriors, Mortal Kombat etc... If they're compared on the 2 systems, they're day by night in the graphics department.

The 2nd level Mecha Boss in Axelay, is probably the coolest boss ever seen on a shmup. You never get anything animated so well on a Genesis.

Sonic 2 is better & cooler than Mario World, but Yoshi's Island looks more like 32bit game.

Genesis has Sonic 1 & 2, Thunder Force III, Gynoug & Gaiares which rule though.

 

[Mask of Destiny]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

The PCEngine only has one CPU at 7.6MHz. I don't know where all this business about it having 2 comes from. Also about the colors thing. As for which one had the fastest CPU, it's largely a matter of what you are doing. The 6502 takes substantially less time to execute one instruction than the 68000, but it generally gets less done in one instruction. The speed of the SNES CPU is partly dependent on whether it's a Hi-ROM or Lo-ROM games. I believe Lo-ROM games can't run the CPU any faster than ~1.7MHz or something like that. That may be why some games seem to have more speed problems than others (though the type of game is important too, Rocket Knight Adventures tends not to have a ridiculous number of objects on the screen at once like some shooters).

The PCEngine can display 512 (though I'd imagine it loses some colors to transparency like the Genesis does) (256 for sprites and 256 for the background) colors simultaneousy, but it only has 512 colors to choose from just like the Genesis, (except in Shadow/Hilight mode in which case the Genesis has 1536 colors to choose from). The PCEngine video hardware is also rather primitive compared to the Genesis (fewer sprites, only one background plane) in most regards apart from colors. Fighting games wouldn't really suffer from the lack of a second background plane, but platformers with a lot of parallax would.

The whole bitness thing is a sham. The SNES had a 16-bit procesor with an 8-bit data bus, the Genesis has a 32-bit processor with a 16-bit data bus. Both are "16-bit" consoles. The PC-Engine belongs in the 16-bit generation regardless of whether or not it has a 16-bit processor.

I personally think the Genesis has more headroom to really push the envelope for the ambitious developer though. Just look at Vectorman. If you're clever in how you use Shadow/Hilight mode and raster effects you can really get a a lot out of the Genesis.

On the music front, the extent of the SNES advantage largely depends on how you feel about FM music. I've grown kind of fond of it (perhaps it's nostalgia) at least for video game music anyway so for me the SNES doesn't gain much ground here.

Genesis is my personal favorite because I like the software library better than that of the PCEngine and it has a nice CD addon that gives me a cheap way to develop for it unlike the SNES and I can dump my cartridges without any exotic hardware (just a simple cable). It also has a flat memory space (unlike the segmented memory space of the SNES or the bankswitched like the PCEngine) which makes programming for it a bit easier.

 

[it290]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Y'know, I want to say Genesis, but the PC Engine is just so rad. It's the ultimate fusion of late 80's technology and mid 80's sensibility.

 

[schi0249]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

No offense to SX; but my personal favorite (best for me) was the SNES. Of course, I didn't get a Genny until after the Saturn came out. But to this day, the SNES has a better supply of great RPG's. Also, I prefer the Mario World games over Sonic.

As for PCE, only played a handful of games through emulation. I don't know a single person with one; though I want a Duo just for Ys.

 

[joe81]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

i always liked the genny better never owned a snes but i did borrow my sisters for a long time. only games i liked on the snes was rpgs earthbound was one of my fav rpgs. The genny is my fav of them all purely because i owned it for the majority of my childhood and still have it to this day including shining force 1 but the bat in it died years ago.

 

[Scared0o0Rabbit]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Actually, snes is my favorite too. As for cpu speed, it's teh same deal with pc's, a faster 'clock speed' doesn't mean the cpu is actually any 'faster'.

 

[ExCyber]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Originally posted by Mask of Destiny+Thu, 2005-02-17 @ 11:01 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mask of Destiny @ Thu, 2005-02-17 @ 11:01 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>The speed of the SNES CPU is partly dependent on whether it's a Hi-ROM or Lo-ROM games. I believe Lo-ROM games can't run the CPU any faster than ~1.7MHz or something like that.

...

The whole bitness thing is a sham. The SNES had a 16-bit procesor with an 8-bit data bus, the Genesis has a 32-bit processor with a 16-bit data bus. Both are "16-bit" consoles. The PC-Engine belongs in the 16-bit generation regardless of whether or not it has a 16-bit processor.

[post=129919]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b]

It's not a matter of HiROM vs. LoROM, but what is typically called FastROM vs. SlowROM. Basically, "SlowROM" is 200ns ROM, and "FastROM" is 120ns ROM (I think the actual timing constraint on FastROM is closer to 140ns to allow for address decoding). "SlowROM" speed is often specified as 2.68MHz, but I would expect that the slowdown is from wait states (which the 65xx family is designed to easily accept) rather than actually changing the CPU clock based on memory constraints (which would be ugly). Memory mapping does play into this since there is a range of ROM banks that (IIRC) unconditionally operates at the slower speed, but it's a separate issue from HiROM vs. LoROM; LoROM is just a simple hack that makes the ROM banks map sanely for banks that are split between registers and cart ROM.

As for the bitness thing being a sham, this cannot possibly be stressed enough, but I don't think the truth that the number doesn't mean anything will ever be as popular as the lie that makes people think that they know what they're talking about.

<!--QuoteBegin-Scared0o0Rabbit@Thu, 2005-02-17 @ 06:12 PM

Actually, snes is my favorite too. As for cpu speed, it's teh same deal with pc's, a faster 'clock speed' doesn't mean the cpu is actually any 'faster'.

[post=129949]Quoted post[/post]​

[/quote]True, but an in-spec 68000 still makes an in-spec 65816 look like a chump. Arcade developers didn't fall in love with the 68K because it was simple and cheap...

I want a Duo just for Y's.

"Ys", not "Y's". Sorry, just a pet peeve.

 

[it290]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

As for the bitness thing being a sham, this cannot possibly be stressed enough, but I don't think the truth that the number doesn't mean anything will ever be as popular as the lie that makes people think that they know what they're talking about.

You're just saying that because you have bit envy.

 

[Cloud121]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Didn't I already do this?

Oh yeah, I forgot the PCEngine. 😛

 

[Mask of Destiny]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Originally posted by ExCyber

Memory mapping does play into this since there is a range of ROM banks that (IIRC) unconditionally operates at the slower speed, but it's a separate issue from HiROM vs. LoROM;

That's probably the source of my misunderstanding. It's been a while since I read about it.

 

[CrazyGoon]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Originally posted by RolfWrenWalsh@Thu, 2005-02-17 @ 11:24 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot the PCEngine. 😛

[post=129965]Quoted post[/post]​

A lesson well learnt. But why exclude the good ol' NeoGeo from this showdown?

And when we refer to 'bits' in videogame consoles, it's not the CPU that is measured, but rather it's the GPU...

 

[ST Dragon]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

The PC-Engine had:

2 8-bit HuC6280 processors

CPU Speed

3.16Mhz each

Not one.

http://darkwatcher.psxfanatics.com/console/turbo.htm

And 2 16bit GPUs

Video Processor: HuC6270

Color Processor: HuC6260

http://darkwatcher.psxfanatics.com/console...o_grafix_16.txt

_____________________________________________________________________________

| | Neo Geo | SNES | Genesis | TG-16 | NES | Sega MS2 |

|----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------|

|Bits (CPU)| 8 + 16 | 16 | 16 | 8 + 8 | 8 | 8 |

|Bits (Gx) | 16 | 16 | 16 | 16 | 8 | 8 |

|CPU | 68000| 65816 | 68000 | HuC6280| 6502 | Z80 |

|APU (Aud) | Z80| SPC???? | Z80 | | | |

|MHz | 12.5, 4| 3.6 | 7.6 | 3.6 3.6| 1.8 | 3.6 |

|Graphics | 320 x 224| 256 x 224| 320 x 224| 256 x 256| 256 x 240| 240 x 226|

| -2nd mode| | 512 x 448|320 x 448*| 320x256**| | |

|Planes | 3 | ? | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 |

|Colors |4096/65536| 256/32768| 61/512 | 482/512 | 16/52 | 52/256 |

|Sprites | 380 | 128 | 80 | 64 | 8 | 16 |

| - size | 16 x 512| 32 x 32| 32 x 32| 16 x 16| 8 x 8 | 8 x 8 |

|Audio | 15-lyr |PCM 8-lyr | 10-lyr | 6-lyr | mono | mono |

|RAM | 64K+68Kgx|128K+64Kgx| 72K+64Kgx| 8K+64Kgx| 2K+ 2Kgx| ? |

| | (+2K Z80)| | | | | |

|----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------|

|CD CPU/MHz| ? | |68000/12.5| 65802/16 |

|CD RAM |430K VRAM | | 768K | CD= 64K |

| | 64K SRAM | | | SCD=256K |

| |7 mg DRAM | | | ACD= 2MB |

|----------+----------+ +----------+----------+

 

[Mask of Destiny]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Don't believe everything you read on the interenet. Seeing as that table can't even get the amount of RAM (64KB not 72KB) in the Genesis right (and also fails to make mention of shadow/hilight mode). The author also doesn't seem to use a standard metric for the bitness of the CPU (like I said before, SNES uses a 16-bit cpu with an 8-bit bus and the Genesis has a 32-bit cpu with an 8-bit bus. Either the SNES has an 8-bit CPU and the Genesis a 16-bit or the Genesis has a 32-bit CPU and the SNES a 16-bit CPU). They also have the number of onscreen colors wrong for the Master System (should be 31 not 52). I can't say I really think much of it.

A much more reliable source of information is here:

http://cgfm2.emuviews.com/txt/pcetech.txt

Although it doesn't specifically mention a second CPU, it doesn't mention a second (and I don't think Charles would let such a glaring omission slip). However, if you read down you will see that the CPU speed is indeed 7.16MHz (or 1.78MHz in low-speed mode).

You would not believe the amount of disinformation that exists on the net about older consoles. There are so many pages that say that the Sega CD use 500MB CD-ROMs. This is complete nonsense. They also list these different capacities (in minutes) of different sized video (i.e. the discs can hold xx minutes of full-screen video, let's say 20 minutes for the sake of argument). Even if you did make a video that used so much data per frame you could only fit 20 minutes of it on a CD, the Sega CD would still take at least an hour to play it because it has a 1x CD-ROM drive (it takes a little over an hour to read the data off of a full CD on a 1X CD-ROM drive).

Originally posted by CrazyGoon

And when we refer to 'bits' in videogame consoles, it's not the CPU that is measured, but rather it's the GPU...

Although this is the case now (though it's a horrible metric since all it's measuring is the width of the memory interface on the graphics chip), it wasn't really the case back then. The Genesis has an 8-bit interface to it's Video RAM. Is it an 8-bit console? I suppose it does have a 16-bit interface to Scroll RAM, and it has a 16-bit interface to the processor (which makes sense since the processor has a 16-bit bus). The Sega marketing said it had 16-bit graphics, but what this actually refers to is unclear. Even the N64 was called a 64-bit console because it had a 64-bit CPU, not that there was a whole lot of reason for it to have a 64-bit CPU.

 

[ExCyber]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

The HuC6260 shouldn't even be counted as a separate processor; it contains hardware that is onboard on most console VDPs. And no, there's no second HuC6280 hiding in the PC Engine (maybe in the SuperGrafX, but I don't think so).

 

[emazur]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

I'll put in a few words about snes vs genesis (never owned a tg16 so I can't really comment, though I haven't been impressed with what I've seen of it). I won't get into technical specs here.

Graphically, I'd say given the overall library of games, the snes had better graphics. But really, who owned or played the whole library games for either system? If you're like me you maybe aquired you're genesis and snes as a kid, and maybe got 6~8 games max per year. And like me maybe you read alot of videogame magazines and chose your games carefully. So let's say you bought mostly the gems for each respective system. Can you really say there's much difference graphically in zelda vs landstalker, contra vs gunstar heroes, PS4 vs FF6, Sonic 2 vs DKC, Streets of Rage 2 vs Final Fight? Mega Turrican vs Super Turrican? For me personally, there wasn't much difference. But there certainly were cases where the genesis lost out. Lacking hardware mode 7, you didn't see things like fzero on the genny. Mk1 and Mk2 lost bigtime graphically to the snes versions (though some stages of the genny MK2 looked as good or better than the snes version). But given the proper developer (i.e. NOT probe) things look a little more equal such as with Earthworm Jim, SF2 (ok, the snes looks better but not by much to me) or MK3 (which again lost out graphically to the snes version but at least this time it was just a matter of color pallette, unlike the previous 2 where they simply decided to lazily delete a bunch of graphics). The point I'm trying to make here is that while snes did have the graphical edge, Genesis owners should feel quite proud and satisfied with its graphical performance. Some people seem to think there's a huge difference, but I really don't think so. And games I never played but discovered after the 'death' of the system thanks to emulation makes me even prouder of the Genesis graphical capabilites (for me such games include Toy Story (line scrolling everywhere!), Vectorman 2, Red Zone, and that magical witch game whose name I forgot) On a side note, one game I never played on Genesis until emulation was Castlevania. I have to say I was very disappointed with the graphics compared to the snes castlevania, released years earlier. I expect more from Konami (cool games like RocketKnight Adventures for example. best bargain bin game I bought for the Genesis at $10).

Soundwise, I think most people can agree the snes is the winner. Didn't have 'hissy fuzzy' digitized sound effects (damn you SF2!), and music instrument quality is better. Though for me the most memorable soundtracks of the 16 bit era were all Genesis games- these include Streets of Rage, Phantasy Star 2, Rocket Knight Adventures, and to a lesser extent Toejam & Earl and some of Sword of Vermillion's tracks. Othere recommended soundtracks (not necessarily Genesis exclusive) include Mega Turrican, Sonic 1 and 2, Landstalker, and Phantasy Star 4.

Valuewise (not strictly speaking in dollars), both systems had their ups and downs. I was able to enjoy the Genesis for 2 years before the snes was released. I definititely consider that a big plus. When snes debuted, it cost $50 more, but unlike Genesis it had 2 controllers packed in and well as the a/v cable, while genesis had 1 controller and rf switch only. 3rd party games were typically $10 cheaper on Genesis due to Nintendo's more expensive licensing policy I believe. However, the snes from the beginning had six button controllers while sega was using 3 buttons. You could later get 6 button ones, but that'd cost ya. Subjectively, I liked the design of the Genesis alot better than Snes (don't like the Genesis 2 though, and not just b/c of design). Genesis games used nice plastic cases instead of snes cardboard. Sega also had the Sega CD for those who wanted it, allowing me to enjoy two of the best games ever- Lunar 1 and 2. Big value there. Though I have to say the 32x was a big waste.

Gamewise (and isn't that where it really matters?) Genesis is my favorite thanks to the exclusive 1st party lineup. Sure snes had it's share too, the best one being Super Mario Kart IMO, but Sonic 1 and 2, Gunstar Heroes, Phantasy Star 2 and 4, Streets of Rage 2, Landstalker, and of course Shining Force 2 (and others) are exclusive Genesis games that stand out in my mind.

Bottom line is that while the snes may have the edge in some departments, the Genesis was more than capable of holding its own with outstanding graphics, excellent music, good value, and most importantly- exclusive games. Given all this, it is my system of choice. Though snes is a fine system too.

There, my longest post ever at SegaXtreme. Hope it was worth reading to somebody. It's not even all that long but it took me awhile to write it.

 

[it290]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

I just want to stand up for the Genesis MK ports. Probe did a great job on those, and MK1/2 are both more playable than the SNES versions.

 

[Mask of Destiny]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Originally posted by emazur

Didn't have 'hissy fuzzy' digitized sound effects (damn you SF2!),

Some games had excellent sounding digitized samples (TJ&E 2 comes to mind). Since the Genesis only has a DAC and not a PCM chip for digitized sound, it's really up to the programmer of the sound driver to time everything right (otherwise it sounds crappy). It's also possible they just used really low sample rate digitized samples to save on space.

 

[emazur]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Yes Mk1 and 2 were both better on Genesis, but graphically and soundwise the snes whupped ass for these games. If they were the same graphics as snes but with less rich color I'd be fine, but they stripped out animation frames, stripped out background graphics (such as the chains on the dead pool, or the floating wizard on the cloud stage). And they cut out tons and tons of samples that were present in the snes port. It was also too easy on Genesis. Even probe's 32x port was below the snes a/v wise, so that's why I'm annoyed with them. However, they did a fantastic job on the pc version, which is the best home version. But if I correctly recall the credits when you beat the game, the pc port developers were mostly quite different than the genny developers