SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

[ST Dragon]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

The SNES had a much larger & varied library of quality of games than the Genesis & PCE put together.

Also the SNES killed the Genesis in world-wide sales (double figure difference)

Games looked just so much better on the SNES compared to Genesis.

Just a few Examples:

CastlaVania 4 & X (SNES) looked better than CastleVania Blood lines (Genesis)

Super Turrican 1 & 2 Vs Mega Turrican

Super Contra III Vs Contra Hard Corps

Super Ghouls & Ghosts completely kills Genesis Ghouls & Ghosts.

Gunstar Heroes, Vectorman & Contra Hardcorps is nothing a SNES can’t handle.

Mega Man X looks much better than those.

Donkey Kong country looked much better than anything the 32X had, even without any special chips & Mega Man X3 looked as good on the SNES as it did on the Saturn & PSX.

Actually the Genesis did very poor sales in Japan compared to SNES & PCE.

SNES was 1st, PCE was 2nd & Genesis was 3rd very close to the NES. Even GB killed the Genesis in sales.

Also games that were released on both PCE & Genesis looked worse on the Genesis (fewer colours)

Example:

After Burner II

Daisenpu – Tiger Shark

Ninja Warriors

Raiden

Steet Fighter II (PCE) kills Genesis SF2 in the Graphics department!

Truxton

Twin Cobra

As for the PCE CD, well it killed the SEGA CD.

The PCE could display parallax scrolling backgrounds:

One example that comes to mind at the moment is Air Zonk.

But my opinion is that the PCE/Duo had fewer games worth owning than the SNES & Genesis.

The Genesis had some awesome games like:

Soic 1 & 2

Thunder Force III

Gynoug

Gaiares

Streets of Rage series

etc...

But

Overall the SNES was the better system.

 

[lordofduct]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Originally posted by ST Dragon

Super Contra III Vs Contra Hard Corps

Super Ghouls & Ghosts completely kills Genesis Ghouls & Ghosts.

Ummm, first off, Hard Corps is amazing with tons going on, on screen all at the same time. The thing was great and very venerable beside Super Contra... personally I like it more, especially the soundtrack!

As for Ghouls and Ghosts... umm first off, Genny Ghouls and Ghosts was made like 5 years before the SNES one! and it was an almost perfect arcade port!

and biggest part... PCE Duo and its parallax scrolling? UMMMM Sega CD could do that too!

I also dont believe your "double figure difference" in sales... with SEGA dominating the Europe all the way from SMS and Genny dominating for most of the 16 bit era in the US... I highly doubt that Japan alone could output a double figure difference in sales. I do agree though that the genny did very poorly in comparison over in Japan as apposed to the US.

Also, talking about Capcom and Konami games on genny compared to the SNES... it may not only be power. But also programmers. Capcom and Konami were locked into nintendo with their contracts. They never put there best programmers on the Sega hardware, and kept them on nintendos hardware... (I would link but im lazy and at work right now.)

 

[ST Dragon]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

I only mentioned about the PCE parallaxing because somebody here said that PCE couldn't do parallaxing backgrounds.

Most PCE shmups had many layers of parallaxing.

The double sale figures are refering to world-wide sales, not Japan only.

Over all the SNES killed the Genesis in world-wide sales, not just Europe.

Even the N64 did better sales than Genesis.

The NES smoked the Genesis sales...

The AMIGA in amount/quality games.

Everything owned the Geny.

:thumbs-up:

http://www.lik-sang.com/list.php?category=159&

Best-selling consoles in video games history:

• Gameboy Series, Nintendo, 110million

• Playstation, Sony, 74million

• NES, Nintendo, 62million

• SNES, Nintendo, 49million

• N64, Nintendo, 28million

• Atari VCS, Atari, 26million

• Mega Drive, Sega, 23million

• Master System, Sega, 10million

Also compare TMNT (SNES) to the Genesis version (Both perspective & 1-on-1 beat em ups look much better on the SNES)

Not to mention the poor quality of the hardware of the genesis. If you tap the genesis just a little when a game cartridge is being played, the game will freeze.

This never happens on the SNES, which secures the cartridges with a plastic lock as soon as you press the power button.

So over all the SNES is the better console.

 

[mal]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Originally posted by ST Dragon@Mon, 2005-02-21 @ 10:36 PM



So over all the SNES is the better console.

You forgot the three magic words:

in my opinion

You can trot out all the figures you like and make references to any game you like, but it's still only your opinion. 🙂

 

[ST Dragon]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

These are not a subjective opinions, all one has to do is compare.

You would never see MegaManX2,3, StarFox, Pilot Wings, Axelay, DK, etc... on Genesis.

 

[SkankinMonkey]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Originally posted by ST Dragon@Mon, 2005-02-21 @ 10:07 AM

These are not a subjective opinions, all one has to do is compare.

You would never see MegaManX2,3, StarFox, Pilot Wings, Axelay, DK, etc... on Genesis.

[post=130161]Quoted post[/post]​

And you'd never see TJ&E, Sonic and Knuckles, Lunar, Lunar 2, Snatcher, or (a decent version of) Popful Mail on the SNES.

 

[it290]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

I disagree that Gunstar Heroes could be done on the SNES. You compare it to Mega Man X. Have you played Mega Man X? It has a lot of slowdown. Hell, even Super Castlevania IV has a lot of slowdown! MMX2 and 3 fared better, but they used custom chips. Also, saying the SNES has a much larger and more varied library than Genesis/PCE put together is nonsense. Just look at the numbers!

 

[Mask of Destiny]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Originally posted by ST Dragon+Mon, 2005-02-21 @ 11:36 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ST Dragon @ Mon, 2005-02-21 @ 11:36 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I only mentioned about the PCE parallaxing because somebody here said that PCE couldn't do parallaxing backgrounds.

Most PCE shmups had many layers of parallaxing.

[/b]

I didn't say that you couldn't do parallax on the PCE. What I said was that the amount of parallax is more limited than on the Genesis/Megadrive because it only has one background layer whereas the Genesis/Megadrive has 2. This means that the PCE can't do vertical parallax and the only way to have a parallax strip that isn't perfectly rectangular is to use sprites (which the Megadrive can display more of).

Sales mean nothing as to which console is better. The Amiga was far superior to the other home computers available in it's day, but it's sales were abysmal compared to the PC and the Mac. Did that make it an inferior computer? Most certainly not. It's no surprise to me that the SNES surpassed the sales of the Genesis. Nintendo had a big nasty illegal monopoly on the console market during the NES days allowing them to lock in almost all of the third-party developers thus starving out competitors like Sega's Master System (which had much better hardware btw). Everyone had an NES (at least here in the US anyway in Europe I hear the picture was a little more diverse) and that gave it enormous mindshare in the buying public. The only reason Sega was able to make any inroads at all is because Nintendo just milked the NES for as long as it did.

Originally posted by ST Dragon+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ST Dragon)</div><div class='quotemain'>Not to mention the poor quality of the hardware of the genesis. If you tap the genesis just a little when a game cartridge is being played, the game will freeze.[/b]

I have never found this to be the case unless I'm playing a cartridge with really dirty contacts, in which case the cartridge lock probably wouldn't help you much. Now sure, if you slam down on the cartridge real hard (or try to yank it out) I'm sure you can make a game freeze. Regardless, it's a minor design consideration that I find unnecessary. If you want to talk about major design flaws, lets talk about that piece of junk cartridge port they used on the original NES.

Originally posted by ST Dragon

You would never see MegaManX2,3, StarFox, Pilot Wings, Axelay, DK, etc... on Genesis.

Starfox used the F/X chip. The Genesis was equally capable of 3D games with the assistance of a DSP (see Virtua Racing). Heck you could even do Wolfenstein 3D class games without any fancy DSPs (see Zero Tolerance and Duke Nukem 3D (not much like the PC game, but impressive none the less)). Heck if you count the 32X games in the mix, the Genesis smokes the SNES when it comes to 3D (see Virtua Racing Deluxe, Virtua Fighter and Star Wars Arcade). Of course, there weren't that many good 32X games and none that used the systems full potential, but that's another story.

It's been a while since I played Donkey Kong Country, but from what I remember it didn't do anything that would preclude the use of Shadow/Hilight mode. You'd still be a bit shy on matching the color production of the SNES, but I think it would look pretty good. Sonic 3D blast uses pre-rendered 3D graphics (even had a more 3Dish playing field than DK) and it looked good (gameplay kind of sucked though IMHO).

As for the others, I haven't played them so I can't really comment.

<!--QuoteBegin-ST Dragon@

Gunstar Heroes, Vectorman & Contra Hardcorps is nothing a SNES can’t handle.

Mega Man X looks much better than those.[/quote]

Obviously the SNES can display enough colors for those games. It's debatable as to whether or not the processor in the SNES is up to the task, but without an attempt at a port we'll never be sure. I just looked at some screenshots, and in my opinion Vectorman looks much better than Mega Man X (but only if you play it on a TV or an emulator with TV mode like Kega Fusion. The game takes advantage of the blurring from a TV to produce more colors and looks all pixelated and nasty without it). Especially when you take into account the incredible fluidity of the animation and the semi-3D train mini-stages.

<!--QuoteBegin-ST Dragon

These are not a subjective opinions, all one has to do is compare. [/quote]

It seems someone needs a little lesson in the difference between objective fact and subjective opinion.

Objective Fact: The SNES can display more colors onscreen than the Genesis/Megadrive

Subjective Opinion: The SNES is a better console because it can display more colors onscreen.

Objective Fact: The Genesis had a faster CPU than the SNES.

Subjective Opinion: The Genesis is a better console because it has a better CPU.

See the difference? Both had excellent game libraries and were very competent machines for their day (particularly when you consider that the Megadrive came out two years before the SNES). For most people it's going to come down to which games they like the most (though as a hobby developer I have some other considerations) and that is largely a subjective matter.

The NES hardware is crap compared to the SMS, but in my opinion the NES is the better system because I find the NES game library to be much more enjoyable. At the same time, people who are big fans of the original Phantasy Star or the Alex Kidd games might disagree and that would be a legitimate disagreement.

EDIT: Fixed tags.

 

[Borisz]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Originally posted by ST Dragon@Mon, 2005-02-21 @ 10:07 AM

These are not a subjective opinions, all one has to do is compare.

You would never see MegaManX2,3, StarFox, Pilot Wings, Axelay, DK, etc... on Genesis.

[post=130161]Quoted post[/post]​

you would never want to see games like those on the Megadrive. Ex-Ranza, Gunstar Heroes, Bare Knuckle 2/3, Sonic 2/3&K, Aladdin, Comix Zone, The Ooze, DeCapAttack, Ecco 1/2, Mercs, Road Rash 2, Puyo Puyo 1/2, X-Men 1/2, Alisia Dragoon, need I go on? And let's not forget that these are produced without any additional hardware unlike Starfox or the megamens. They just outperform those games on the basic hardware. Both graphically and gameplay-wise.

Also the SNES killed the Genesis in world-wide sales (double figure difference)

Up to 1995, the Megadrive was clearly doing better. After 95, Sega dropped support for the MD completely to favor the Saturn instead. After 95, nintendo got a buttload of SquareSoft RPGs on the SNES. Coincidence?

And the MD had a longer lifespan anyway, which MAY be to the fact that people favored it more.

 

[Borisz]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

oh, and to reply to the original topic: I have most of my faves on the Megadrive, but the SNES had some funky games as well (Yoshi's Island is easily one of the best platformers EVER done).

I haven't checked PCE stuff yet, but the game lineup, especially the CD based ones are pretty sweet. Puyo Puyo 1/2 CD, Madou Monogatari 1 CD, Cotton CD, etc.

 

[joe81]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

i've never had a game stop playing or freeze on my genny. and i was a hyper kid so i most def hit the machine a few times.

 

[ST Dragon]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Originally posted by Borisz@Mon, 2005-02-21 @ 12:51 PM

you would never want to see games like those on the Megadrive. Ex-Ranza, Gunstar Heroes, Bare Knuckle 2/3, Sonic 2/3&K, Aladdin, Comix Zone, The Ooze, DeCapAttack, Ecco 1/2, Mercs, Road Rash 2, Puyo Puyo 1/2, X-Men 1/2, Alisia Dragoon, need I go on? And let's not forget that these are produced without any additional hardware unlike Starfox or the megamens. They just outperform those games on the basic hardware. Both graphically and gameplay-wise.

Up to 1995, the Megadrive was clearly doing better. After 95, Sega dropped support for the MD completely to favor the Saturn instead. After 95, nintendo got a buttload of SquareSoft RPGs on the SNES. Coincidence?

And the MD had a longer lifespan anyway, which MAY be to the fact that people favored it more.

[post=130171]Quoted post[/post]​

Exactly how do these games out perform the SNES?

If you play these equevelant SNES games, you'll find that they're quite superior on the basic SNES hardware compared to the Genesis basic hardware.

Just a few examples:

Alien 3

Arabian Knights - Sabaku no Seirei Ou (J)

Bahamoot Lagoon

Black Thorne

CastleVania - Vampire's Kiss

Contra III - The Alien Wars

Cybernator

Cutthroat Island

Darius Twin

Darius Force

Hagane

Jim Powers - The Lost Dimension 3D

Judge Dredd (U)

Metal Warriors

Musya

Ninja Warriors Again

Pocky & Rocky

Pocky & Rocky 2

Realm

Rendering Ranger R2 (J)

Sparkster

Spriggan Powered

Sunset Riders (U)

Super Shadow of the Beast

Super SWIV

Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles IV - Turtles in Time

Wolf Child

X-Men Mutant Apocalypse

X-Kaliber 2097 (U)

One game on the Genesis that I find very amazing & utilizes the Genesis hardware to the limits is:

The Adventures of Batman and Robin

The multi layer paralax is done so well.

Also these Genesis Exclusive titles are so cool:

Hokuto no Ken 2

Jewel Master

Kujaku-Oh 2 - Peacock King |

Mystic Defender |---> Same

 

[ExCyber]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Most of the games you listed have nice-looking sprites and backgrounds, but don't really do anything insane with the hardware that I can recall. Show me anything on SNES like Red Zone that doesn't use an on-cart chip, then we'll talk.

 

[it290]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Heh, I love that little intro screen on Red Zone where it shows you all the features that the game has. Not the best game, but man did Zyrinx know how to push the hardware. Were those guys demo coders or somethign? The music and logos for their games are very demo-ish.

 

[CrazyGoon]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Originally posted by ST Dragon@Mon, 2005-02-21 @ 10:07 AM

These are not a subjective opinions, all one has to do is compare.

[post=130161]Quoted post[/post]​

You've already been informed by Mask of Destiny, so I won't repeat it.

 

[ExCyber]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Were those guys demo coders or somethign?

Their overall style and emphasis on tech effects screams "demo group" to me as well. And of course, there's their infamous 32X demo tape...

 

[ST Dragon]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Most of the Scaling & Rotation effects done by the SNES were achieved by the basic SNES hardware & that's something very rarely done by the Genesis without writing extensive code & the results weren't as nice. (Only Contra Hard Corps I think)

Example the 1st Winged Boss in Wolf Child, scales & rotates from the back ground towards you on the SNES, but this is not done on the SEGA CD version which is supposed to utilize Hardware scaling & Rotation, plus the Genesis version lacks a lot of colours.

Also I think F-Zero levels are done using the basic SNES hardware with no extra chips. You don't see that on the Genesis...

In the list below you'll find a lot of games with cool graphic effects done by the basic SNES hardware & without special on cart chips.

The Best Games on the 3 consoles in my opinion:

SNES

=======

Alien 3

Area 88 - U.N. Squadron

Axelay

Bahamut Lagoon

Batman Returns

Batman Revenge of the Joker

Battletoads & Double Dragon - The Ultimate Team

Black Thorne

CastleVania - Vampire's Kiss

Contra III - The Alien Wars

Cho Jikuu Yosai Macross

Choplifter 3

Cutthroat Island

Cybernator

Darius Twin

Darius Force

Demon's Crest

Death & Return of Superman

Doom

Doom Troopers

Donkey Kong Country

Donkey Kong Country 2

Donkey Kong Country 3

Donald Duck - Maui Mallard in Cold Shadow

Firemen, The

Gokujyou Parodius (J)

Gourmet Sentai Bara Yarou

Gradius III

Hagane

Iron Commando - Kotetsu no Senshi

Jim Powers - The Lost Dimension 3D

Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius (J)

Joe and Mac - Caveman Ninja

Joe and Mac - Caveman Ninja 3

Final Fight

Final Fight 2

Final Fight 3

First Samurai

Flintstones, The

Flintstones, The - The Treasure of Sierra Madrock

F-Zero

Front Mission

Front Mission 2 - Gun Hazard (J)

King of Dragons, The

Legend of The Mystical Ninja

Lost Vikings 2

Mortal Kombat 1

Mortal Kombat 2

Mortal Kombat 3

Mega Man 7

Mega Man X

MEga Man X2

Mega Man X3

Metal Warriors

Mr. Nutz

Musya

Ninja Warriors Again

Parodius Da! Shinwa kara Owarai he (J)

Pirates of Dark Water

Pocky & Rocky

Pocky & Rocky 2

Pop 'N' Twinbee

Realm

Rendering Ranger R2 (J)

Rockman & Forte

R-Type 3

Run Saber

Shin Kidoesenki Gundam Wing - Endless Duel

Shin Nekketsu Kouha Kunio tachi no Bannka

Sparkster

Spriggan Powered

Street Fighter II

Super Adventure Island

Super Adventure Island II

Super Bonk

Super Castlevania IV

Super Ghouls 'N Ghosts

Super Genjin 2 (J)

Super Mario All-Stars & World

Super Metroid

Super R-Type

Super Shadow of the Beast

Super Star Wars Series

Super Street Fighter 2 - The New Challengers

Super SWIV

Super Turrican

Super Turrican 2

Super Valis IV

Tales of Phantasia

Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles IV - Turtles in Time

Tiny Toons Adventures - Buster Busts Loose!

Universal Soldier

Wild Guns (U)

Wolf Child

X-Men Mutant Apocalypse

Yoshi's Island

Zelda 3

Zool

GENESIS

=========

Aero Blasters

After Burner II

After Burner 32X

Arrow Flash

Alien Soldier

Alisia Dragoon

Altered Beast

Battletoads

Batman - Adventures of Batman & Robin

Batman - Revenge of the Joker

Battletoads & Double Dragon - The Ultimate Team

Blackthorne 32X

Blades of Vengence

Castlevania - Bloodlines

Comix Zone

Contra 4 - Hard Corps

Cutthroat Island

Doom Troopers

Death & Return of Superman

Ecco 1

Ecco 2

ESWAT Cyber Police - City Under Siege

Eliminate Down

Fire Shark

G-Loc Air Battle

Galaxy Force II

Gaiares

Generations Lost

Golden Axe

Golden Axe 2

Golden Axe 3

Ghouls & Ghosts

Gley Lancer

Gunstar Heroes (U)

Gynoug - wings of Wor

Heavy Unit

Hokuto no Ken 2

Insector X

Jewel Master

Jim Power - The Arcade Game

Kolibri 32X

Lost Vikings

Kujaku-Oh 2 - Peacock King |

Mystic Defender |---> Same

Mega SWIV

Mega Turrican

Mick & Mack as the Global Gladiators

Mickey Mouse - Fantasia

Mickey Mouse - Castle of Illusion

Mortal Kombat 1

Mortla Kombat 2

Mortal Kombat 3

Mr. Nutz

M.U.S.H.A

Ninja Gaiden

Phantasy Star Series

Pirates of Dark Waters

Puggsy

Raiden Trad

Red Zone

Revenge of Shinobi

Risky Woods

Ristar the Shooting Star

Rocket Knight Adventures

Rocket Knight Adventures 2

Shinobi 3 - Return of the Ninja Master

Soleil

Sonic 1

Sonic 2

Sonic 3

Sonic and Knuckles & Sonic 3

Space Harrier II

Splatter House 2

Splatter House 3

Streets of Rage

Streets of Rage 2

Streets of Rage 3

Story of Thor

Strider

Super Shinobi 2

Super Street Fighter 2 - The New Challengers

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - The Hyperstone Heist

Thunder Blade

Thunder Force Series

Tiny Toons - Buster's Hidden Treasure

Toki - Going Ape Spit

Truxton

Turrican

Twin Cobra

Two Crude Dudes

Valis Series

Vectorman

Vectorman 2

Wonder Boy IV (U)

Wolf Child

Zero Wing

SEGA MEGA CD

--------------

After Burner 3

Android Assault - The Revenge of Bari-Arm

Earnest Evans (U)

Lunar Series

Lords of Thunder

Popful Mail

Robo Aleste

Sonic CD (U)(920)

Sol Feace

PC-Engine / TurboGrafX-16

==========================

1941 Counter Attack (SGX)

Aero Blasters

After Burner II

Air Zonk

Aldynes (SGX)

Bonk's Adventure

Bonk's Revenge

Bonk 3 - Bonk's Big Adventure

Blazing Lazers - Gunhed

Coryoon Child of Dragon

Dai Makai Mura (SGX)

Detana!! Twinbee

Gradius

Heavy Unit

Hyperdyne Sidearms (J)

Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu (U)

Kyuukyoku Tiger

Legendary Axe, The (U)

Liquid Kids (J)

Magical Chase

Neutopia II (U)

New Adventure Island (U)

Ninja Gaiden (J)

Ninja Spirit (U)

Operation Wolf (J)

Parodius (J)

Parasol Stars (U)

Raiden

R-Type Complete

Rabio Lepus Special (J)

Salamander

Shinobi

Soldier Blade (U)

Splatterhouse

Street Fighter II

Strip Fighter II

Super Star Soldier

Tatsujin - Truxton

Tenseiryu Saint Dragon (J)

Tiger Road

Tiger Shark (J) - Daisenpuu (J)

Turrican

Valkyrie no Densetsu

Wonderboy in Monsterland (J)

PCE DUO

=========

Ai Chou aniki

Akumajyou Dracula X - chi no rondo (j)

Bonk 3 - Bonk's Big Adventure CD (u)

Chou Aniki (j)

Cotton - Fantastic Night Dreams (u)

Gate of Thunder (j)

Gradius II - Gofer No Yabou (j)

Kaze Kiri - Ninja Action (J)

Lords of Thunder (u)

Macross 2036 (j)

R-Type Complete CD (J)

Sapphire - Ginga Fukei Densetsu (j)

shadow of the Beast (u)

Spriggan Serei Senshi - Summer Carnival '91 (J)

super darius 2 (j)

Super Raiden (J)

The Legend of Xanadu

The Legend of Xanadu II

valis Series

Zero Wing

 

[lordofduct]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Ummm, it seems you come here and ask what is our favorite system. And then go and attempt to tell us we are wrong for liking the PCE or Genny over the SNES. Its a freakin' opinion bro. And your not going to change it. We have most likely been beraded with comments like yours since the release of the SNES. So save it buddy and acclimate yourself to the SX website some other way.

 

[Borisz]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Cotton - Fantastic Night Dreams (u) <-- Cotton had an US release on the PCE? I thought it was jap only.

 

[ST Dragon]

SNES, Genesis & PCE Showdown!

Yeah there was a US release & it was much better than the SNES version... 😉

The humor in the cutscenes & video is very good. Quite funny.

Good english translation.

I've completed it.