Wow! Amazing Job man! My Fiancé and I are So Excited to play your game. We just Beat D&D TOD and Blazing Dragons together. And we just got a HI-Saturn!
some love for Albert Odyssey
- Thread starter xhul
- Start date
Didn't post in the thread yet but the SFX restoration + Undub patches are now up on the resources page since early this morning.
I finished playtesting, posted the patches and fell asleep.
Yeah, I think our patches should work well together. I'm glad I could join in in giving this game a little love too.
Please, take your time with balancing and stuff. And I WAS hoping your random encounter frequency change patch would come out first.
This will change the experience so much. Will be so much less frustrating to explore, and i believe the difficulty in battles should be harder and more satisfying if you aren't leveling up every 2 steps. The game is definitely too easy, in the first half especially.
Sounds like you are making quick progress here. Exciting stuff. Not going to pretend I understand all this, but it's fascinating and I want to learn more.
Don't get too excited yet my friend, the V1 patch doesn't include that much.
The new random encounter rate should refresh the experience though, positively i hope.
Take good care of that hi-saturn man, that's a great piece =]
Very cool!
Question: is the first track altered by any of your patches?
To tell the truth, i went for a x1.5 XP|gold buff a bit arbitrarily.
x1 sounded too low, implying potentially excessive XP grinding, where the lowered encounter rate would then become counterproductive.
x2 sounded too high, cause despite the random battles occur about twice less often, the difficulty itself hasn't changed at all.
I guess only long term testing will tell if that was indeed a good compromise or not.
But more generally, i'm definitely onboard with tuning up the difficulty.
EDIT:
It seems there are 3 variables involved in encounter occurrence, not 2 like i thought (step counter & RNG).
The 3rd variable seems to be tied to the area, which makes sense.
So i did some more testing, and in practice (statistically), the actual encounter rate varies approximately from /2 (very early areas) to /1.5 (endgame dungeons), compared to the original.
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Aight, with some doing, i was able to test the V1 patch, and everything seems to work as expected.
However, Sega Saturn Patcher somehow corrupts the .cue, as well as the audio tracks (and even creates an additional one).
That's strange considering i only altered the data track, but i'll have to figure that out if i want to distribute the patch as a .ssp file.
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Yes, it is. (you mean the data track right?) Almost 700 files were replaced in the data track.
Seems to me you level up much too quickly as it is, which leads to being overpowered and underchallenged. I would maybe even say lower the encounter rate slightly further without doing an xp buff, but a gold buff sounds like a good idea. It wouldn't hurt to have to grind a bit towards the endgame. You should be able to enjoy exploring the world, but as it stands it can be a pain just going from A to B ( especially in the endgame dungeons).
Odd. I'm curious what version of SSP you are using? I don't see a problem with distributing an xdelta patch.
Your experience of the game is very valuable, thanks again for sharing it.
Unfortunately, making the rate|buff lvl|area dependent will represent significant reverse-engineering time.
Currently, with the knowledge i have, i can only act on the step counter variable, though i can do it differently for the world map, or for everywhere else.
Similarly, i could potentially implement a different XP|gold buff if it's on the world map, or elsewhere.
For the dungeons, i'll try increasing the counter every 3 steps instead of 2, cause though it's better at the moment, it's still annoying enough, at least in the Fargasta tower for sure.
I might also do some tests without any buff at all, but it can be a bad move, cause having to grind more is definitely not OK if the encounters are too rare (ironically).
EDIT: Outside of the world map, increasing the step counter every 3 steps seems to be very well balanced, in both early and late dungeons, i'll probably stick to that. I'll test 3>1 for the world map as well.
1.9.7872.1316, you?
From what i understood, patching the data track using tools like winips or xdelta isn't multi-patch-friendly.
It's a bit hard to explain, so please bear with me:
Patching the data track (correctly) requires to modify some additional data, other than the files themselves.
That extra data varies depending on which files were modified, and how.
For example:
- hack A -> file modifications A + extra data modifications A
- hack B -> file modifications B + extra data modifications B
- hack A & B together -> file modifications A & B + extra data modifications C (not just A & B)
Your xdelta patches for example, include data modifications that are only compatible with the unmodified redump image.
If you were to apply one on an already hacked image, the game would be broken, or probably not boot at all.
Sega Saturn Patcher solves that problem, because it's able to modify that extra data correctly (not just using fixed offsets).
That's why i was aiming for SSP initially, so that my hack can be applied to any image (including an original image that was previously patched with yours).
In case i fail to solve the problems i encountered with SSP, i found another reliable alternative, but it requires up to 3 different softwares, not exactly user-friendly.
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I'd like to try it out.
This sounds about right to me.
1.95.8035.20705
Not sure why this version isn't on the resources page, but it was included with the Wachenröder translation patch found here:
Maybe try that vesion?
I'll prepare a test version with just the reduced step increase, but i need to re-code the routine for the world map first.
In case you didn't notice, in the unmodified game (1.100 at least), the step counter continues to increase when you walk towards a wall.
Though that's a bit silly, that means you don't actually have to travel endlessly if you want to force encounters.
It appears to work everywhere but on the world map.
Keep that in mind for the extra grinding =P
It's definitely better, thank you.
The audio track musics appear to be played correctly, and no extra track is generated, at least.
However, the indexes in the .cue are still altered, as well as the audio track files themselves, even if you just apply a basic region free patch.
The fact that Albert Odyssey uses unusual gaps (2.02 seconds on some specific tracks) is most likely what SSP doesn't digest.
Interestingly, the japanese versions use common gaps (2.00s) on all tracks.
Not sure what Working Designs cooked there...
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V1 ready for testing!
I'm counting on you for the precious feedback =]
CHANGES
# Traveling|exploration is now significantly less interrupted by random encounters. - experimental
Basically, the counter used in the probability calculation is now incremented every 3 character steps instead of 1, in all areas.
As a consequence, extra XP grinding is required, so the leveling progression is no longer a walk in a park.
If the extra grinding happens to be too problematic, i'll include an XP|gold gain compensation (code already ready) in V2.
Tip: to force encounters without changing position, just hold the D-pad while blocked by any wall (behaviour present in the unmodified game), though it only works outside of the world map.
# Unlocked access to Gryzz's skills from the "Magic" menu (outside of battles).
# Enabled MP consumption for Gryzz.
Transparent for now since he has no MP and his skills don't cost anything, but that will very likely change in the future.
More of a preparation change.
REQUIRED
# a working CD image of Albert Odyssey - Legend Of Eldean, version 1.100 (the latest USA release)
For image integrity verification purpose: redump.org • Albert Odyssey: Legend of Eldean
An already hacked image can be used as well, assuming it's compatible.
# Sega Saturn Patcher software
Recommended version: https://segaxtreme.net/attachments/ssp-wachenroder-extract-wachenroder-zip.6963/
INSTALLATION
If the goal is to combine this hack with (an)other one(s), it's highly recommended to apply this patch last.
# Execute Sega Saturn Patcher.
# Click "Select Saturn Game".
# Click "CD Image".
# Select the image you want to use.
# Click "+ Game Patch (SSP)".
# Select the .ssp file.
# Check "Separate Tracks Files(If applicable)."
# Click "Build Image".
# Select the name and destination for the patched image, then click "Save".
# Wait until the patching is complete, then exit Sega Saturn Patcher.
In some cases, Sega Saturn Patcher may corrupt the .cue and audio track files.
Fortunately, this hack only modifies the data track.
So, it's highly recommended to keep only the generated track 1 file, and use a copy of the original other files.
I'm counting on you for the precious feedback =]
CHANGES
# Traveling|exploration is now significantly less interrupted by random encounters. - experimental
Basically, the counter used in the probability calculation is now incremented every 3 character steps instead of 1, in all areas.
As a consequence, extra XP grinding is required, so the leveling progression is no longer a walk in a park.
If the extra grinding happens to be too problematic, i'll include an XP|gold gain compensation (code already ready) in V2.
Tip: to force encounters without changing position, just hold the D-pad while blocked by any wall (behaviour present in the unmodified game), though it only works outside of the world map.
# Unlocked access to Gryzz's skills from the "Magic" menu (outside of battles).
# Enabled MP consumption for Gryzz.
Transparent for now since he has no MP and his skills don't cost anything, but that will very likely change in the future.
More of a preparation change.
REQUIRED
# a working CD image of Albert Odyssey - Legend Of Eldean, version 1.100 (the latest USA release)
For image integrity verification purpose: redump.org • Albert Odyssey: Legend of Eldean
An already hacked image can be used as well, assuming it's compatible.
# Sega Saturn Patcher software
Recommended version: https://segaxtreme.net/attachments/ssp-wachenroder-extract-wachenroder-zip.6963/
INSTALLATION
If the goal is to combine this hack with (an)other one(s), it's highly recommended to apply this patch last.
# Execute Sega Saturn Patcher.
# Click "Select Saturn Game".
# Click "CD Image".
# Select the image you want to use.
# Click "+ Game Patch (SSP)".
# Select the .ssp file.
# Check "Separate Tracks Files(If applicable)."
# Click "Build Image".
# Select the name and destination for the patched image, then click "Save".
# Wait until the patching is complete, then exit Sega Saturn Patcher.
In some cases, Sega Saturn Patcher may corrupt the .cue and audio track files.
Fortunately, this hack only modifies the data track.
So, it's highly recommended to keep only the generated track 1 file, and use a copy of the original other files.
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Awesome, your efforts are appreciated! I'll test more when I have time.
This is good. On my last playthrough, I think I only died twice and only when I got to Aine Blood. And I basically always had enough gold or junk to sell, to buy anything available.
I tested applying your patch to my pre-patched images. The data track seems to patch properly, but SSP creates a bunch of extra tracks and I think there are issues with the cue file generated. If you test these images, right away the wrong track will play at the Working Designs Logo, and there was an issue of audio during the intro scene being out of sync.
So I deleted all the tracks generated by SSP except for Track 1, then just used the other tracks and the cue file created by my patchers (of course, you must rename track 1 appropriately).
This seems to work perfect so far.
The encounter rate seems much better and the SFX restoration + undubs seem to be working properly with it. But you must do it this way currently to properly combine the hacks.
Will do more playtesting later to see how the new progression feels, when I have time. But for now, GREAT WORK!
I loaded up a save from my last playthrough and went straight to Fargasta tower for a quick test, and it is waaaaay less frustrating to explore.
Of course my characters are all already leveled way up in the save, so I'll have to start a new game and see how the grind goes.
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Interesting that SSP 1.95 only corrupts the audio tracks when the source image was previously modified.
But yeah, it seems to generate a correct track 1 in all cases, i actually had to use that trick with 1.9.
I'll specify that in my previous post, thanks for the report.
Big thanks for your testing time, it's as valuable as the reverse-engineering|coding itself.
On the paper, with the new rate, a player that rushes the game should be scared of random encounters, since he'll be under-leveled.
That sensation of fear is great, but now i realise it might potentially be compromised by the ability to run from a fight.
The penalty seems fine in the early game though, cause you get attacked each time you run.
However, in the Fargasta tower for example, running is always without any consequence, which is pretty bad.
Just like you, the party is over-leveled in my save, i definitely have to check if that's the reason...
EDIT:
Confirmed, the AGI stat of all members is consulted to determine if you get attacked while running or not, so that's all good.
Additionally, avoidance can't trigger while running, i checked just in case.
I guess running too often while under-leveled is punishing enough already.
In case rushing somehow becomes trivial anyway, reducing the DEF stat effectiveness while running would probably be the easiest thing to do, though that definitely sounds evil =]
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I've been thinking about a new feature.
With the new encounter rate, the player may face leveling|farming progression walls more often than before (no pun intended).
The assumption here is that there may be some specific moments during the gameplay, where the player won't have anything better to do than actively look for battles.
In those cases, the necessary walking may potentially feel long and boring on the long term.
So, how about a player-controlled encounter rate?
When it comes to the mechanic itself, i had the following idea:
- regular walking - D-pad alone - counter+1 every 3 steps - comfortable traveling|exploration - moderate leveling|farming
- loud walking (mobs attracted by noise) -> X held + D-pad - counter+3 every 1 step - faster leveling|farming
Dumb or worth testing?
EDIT:
Forget that idea, i realised the player would probably end up using the alternate mode too often, and then always run while traveling|exploring, which is pretty bad.
An XP|gold buff sounds definitely more reasonable, assuming one is actually needed of course.
And if it makes the game too trivial, it could be coupled with a general difficulty increase, which would make the extra reward more legitimate.
All i want is to avoid the cases where the player has to walk endlessly too often, just for the sake of triggering encounters.
With the new encounter rate, the player may face leveling|farming progression walls more often than before (no pun intended).
The assumption here is that there may be some specific moments during the gameplay, where the player won't have anything better to do than actively look for battles.
In those cases, the necessary walking may potentially feel long and boring on the long term.
So, how about a player-controlled encounter rate?
When it comes to the mechanic itself, i had the following idea:
- regular walking - D-pad alone - counter+1 every 3 steps - comfortable traveling|exploration - moderate leveling|farming
- loud walking (mobs attracted by noise) -> X held + D-pad - counter+3 every 1 step - faster leveling|farming
Dumb or worth testing?
EDIT:
Forget that idea, i realised the player would probably end up using the alternate mode too often, and then always run while traveling|exploring, which is pretty bad.
An XP|gold buff sounds definitely more reasonable, assuming one is actually needed of course.
And if it makes the game too trivial, it could be coupled with a general difficulty increase, which would make the extra reward more legitimate.
All i want is to avoid the cases where the player has to walk endlessly too often, just for the sake of triggering encounters.
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Hey, It's an honor to help with your efforts.
BTW... I'm gonna get cracking on a new playthrough tonight, and I'm afraid to give too much feedback until I've tested at least a nice chunk.
But I like the thought process here. I agree that the player should "fear" random encounters. I never felt that excitement in my last playthrough, it was replaced with the dread of getting sucked into very easy battles over and over. I honestly feel like the encounter rate must have been raised dramatically late in development.
Totally, I'm sure you'll find the right balance here. I think it will be okay to let players either try to rush the game, or "train" a bit to beat the big baddies. I'd like to see the battles a bit more challenging and exciting, but overall I think this game should just be experienced without too much frustration.
So yeah I'm gonna get cracking tonight on playtesting and I will have to see what I think about XP|gold buffs and difficulty and such.
Hopefully, I can provide some useful feedback.
That's very nice of you, i wish i had more testing time myself.
Don't hesitate to share if you catch some inconsistencies or obvious bugs on your way.
V2 will include, for now:
- "Arms&Armor" - persistent digit bug fix
- "Arms&Armor" & "Status" - "NONE" string display removal (misaligned + inconsistently only applying to weapon slot anyway)
Just in case, i'm gonna look for a way to increase all incoming final damage, as well as monster health (+25% comes to mind, for both).
And since i already implemented a reliable flag, it wouldn't be hard to make that random-encounter-specific.
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vbt
Staff member
you could put it in the resources section
Definitely, thanks for the reminder =]
I'll probably do that for V2.
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Just spotted a bug in the original code, specific to the item selection screen, during battle.
It triggers under the following conditions:
- There's at least 11 different items listed.
- The cursor is on the second column.
- The cursor is on the fifth|sixth|seventh|eighth|ninth row.
- The player presses RIGHT.
It causes a nasty scrolling desynchronisation, so the cursor position as displayed is no longer the same as internally.
I'll see what i can do about it, but in the mean time, i suggest always avoiding to press RIGHT when the cursor is on the second column.
EDIT: fix ready for V2 =]
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I've seen many reports about boss battles taking way too long.
Do you guys feel the same way?
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I'll code the hack that addresses that soon, after what V2 should be ready.
The current plan is to increase final raw damage dealt to AI by 25%, specifically during all scripted (non-random) encounters.
Without additional feedback, i'll base my decision to actually implement that based on various reviews of the game.
