Fahrenheit 9/11
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Has anyone else in this conversation read "Inherit the Wind?" Fer crying out loud, it was required reading in my (public) highschool, and reccommended reading in my 7th grade class in a catholic school with a nun for a teacher!!! She wanted us to see the argument that both theories could exist together.
haven't read it.
but what does everybody think of this:
Somebody from my church was telling me that in one of their kids' classes, the teacher assigned everyone to read a certain passage out of the Koran and memorize some of it along with the basic Muslim principles. They also had some lessons on it. It was supposed to be for "awareness" or something about the Muslim faith since people were getting pregidous against Muslims. How is that any different than having the kids read the Bible and memorize verses? Keep in mind this is a public school.
but what does everybody think of this:
Somebody from my church was telling me that in one of their kids' classes, the teacher assigned everyone to read a certain passage out of the Koran and memorize some of it along with the basic Muslim principles. They also had some lessons on it. It was supposed to be for "awareness" or something about the Muslim faith since people were getting pregidous against Muslims. How is that any different than having the kids read the Bible and memorize verses? Keep in mind this is a public school.
Who are you talking about? The primary refutations of the conversion story come from his immediate family. If you'd like to avoid sources with a heavy evolutionist/skeptic bias you could try this page, which says that Lady Hope never actually claimed that he recanted in the first place.
Yes, they can coexist in principle, but realistically the conflict is primarily between those who believe that Earth is only a few thousand years old and those who believe that Earth is several billion years old. To believe the former you have to ignore the fossil record and a large portion of the field of geology (describing such findings as divine hoaxes seems to be a popular approach). To believe the latter you have to ignore a large portion of Genesis (describing the Old Testament as an exaggerated account of Hebrew history seems to be a popular approach).
edit: as for the Koran study, I think it would be fine as part of a broader study of religion (as I had in high school; incidentally this wasn't a conventional high school), but on its own it's questionable. However, how it is taught is critical to determining a bias, and there's a difference between studying religious belief as religion and studying it as history and science. Still, it seems like a knee-jerk reaction that was not well thought out.
About the Darwin thing, I was talking about the people that denied it. But if it was his familiy, then it's probably true. No big deal.
Anyway, with concern the earth-age thing, I mentioned before the idea that the earth could have been created pre-aged, much like Adam and Eve who were supposedly created as full grown adults.
Being both a man of science and of religion, this phrase has always summed up my belief.
"Science provides the how, God provides the why."
That was told to me by an old paster of mine. I believe god has set things in motion. He started the process that life has evolved from. You can not completly discount evolution. Evolution is about more than how the earth and all on it was formed. Its also about how life adapts to situations.
"Science provides the how, God provides the why."
That was told to me by an old paster of mine. I believe god has set things in motion. He started the process that life has evolved from. You can not completly discount evolution. Evolution is about more than how the earth and all on it was formed. Its also about how life adapts to situations.
Well from the Genesis 1 account, it doesn't sound like evolution:
20
And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fifth day.
24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
20
And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fifth day.
24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
See I don't believe in a strict interpretation of the bible. I do not see the bible as the end all be all. The bible is a collection of stories. Many of which are at least partly true. Many ancient cultures have a story of a great flood eliminating much of their population. There are references to a man similar sounding to Abraham in Egypt. Also, their is evidence of a man roaming the country preaching. Stories similar to Jesus.
Actualy, EVERY ancient culture had some sort of flood story. Those that didn't have a flood wiping out most of civilization, ala Noah and the Ark, the earth was created in water. Ancient Chinese mythology had the world coming from an egg, land coming from the yolk and water being the... well, the egg white, but there was another name for it. But it started out, all the land was floating inside the water.
Large sums of water... What unites every ancient faith.
Even evolution, come to think of it, as most the earth was covered with water after one of the ice ages.
Right here youre admitting that he had wmd , weapons for the most part we sold him . So there were WMD , to me Wmd are simply classified as any non conventional weapons , non conventional weapons are anything that doesnt just blow up a small area simply put . What have we found in Iraq so far Anthrax , Blister Agent , mustard gas , sarin gas ..... So were found in weapons stockpiles , some were found in people refrigerators , and some were found by the hundereds in drums . Again imo the media is very liberal and a smoking gun will never be found because that smoking gun will be a full working up and running nuclear arms plant I give that million to one odds i believe they put people Mars before id believe that . The point here is that SADAM wasnt allowed to have anything except short range normal bombs to defend himself , he signed a treaty to end the gulf war saying all kinds of stuff including the previous and he never fulfilled his promise . And again he had 12 to move stuff around , we gave him eight months of warning telling him we were coming to kick his ass and take his gas . There lots of dirt out there to burry stuff and lots of wacky nieghbors to have a yard sale with . These weapons are so old they have lttle to no usefullness Well then would you drink it ...go swimming in it like it to be spread around in your neighborhood ? Would you like it in the hands of radicals ?
The Us was friends with Sadam and explioted its relationship :
Yes very true . Up untill the gulf war Sadam was very anti religion this is how dictators rule ...the people dont need god they are god or there is no god or somthing I dunno In fact Islam was practically outlawed by him for 20 years Anyways my point is he was one one the LEAST radical religous leaders and countries in the region . Thats who we have had problems with is the radicals . After we saw him doing crazy stuff like gassing his own people we started to distance oursleves from him . After the gulf war he turned to Islam to rally other countrys around him to his side after King Hussien of Jordan was the only one to give any kind of support .
Ok so I saw the movie is was pretty much junk .
the only part I agree with is that not enough blame has been placed on the saudis or said about thes connections .
Bush won by majoral vote not popular , so what its fucked up lets change the system ..do somthing about it instead of bitching . This system is old and outdated based on a time back when some areas got more votes because of influence and intellignce . Today we have the technology to count make a popular vote election happen . So you who dont like it make it happen .
Then the movie goes on to talk about talk about how Bush has taken away civil liberties . I got news for gore fans the mans a socialist he believes like the movie men in black says humans as a whole are ingnornt beings and need to be protected from themselves . Maybe its true or not but this wasnt what America was founded on . It was founded on the freedom of press , freedom to assemble bear arms ect . Why Clinton was plugging away Gore had his own agenda , what laws did gore get passed :
1.Certain book types were made illegal , like but not including the anarchist cookbook ect .
2.Music perental warnings and if you want to buy most non pop united albums go gotta go downtown to buy them casue walmat and target doesnt sell them .
3.Rating systems on video games can be inforcedable by id checking .
4. Tv rating system .
5. The need to pay $20 more for a v-chip on every tv because anyday now all tv are mandated to have them wether you want them or not .
6. After he invented the internet :make_fac: he wanted to censor and tax it but very shortly after changed his mind after he saw is wasnt possible and internet companies are loosing money .
Now before you say these are all good things , its not what he originally intended ... thats just what he settled for . Ive read hundereds of pages of manuscripts of him talking about censorship or things like tv , books and video games and the mans doesnt believe in or has loose interpritations of:
1.The true freedom of speech
2.The freedom of press
3.The right to assemble
I believe if gore was elected he wouldnt have even made it public what rights of yours hes taken away . BTW project carnivore was started during the Clinton adminstration . How much press was made over this ?
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I dont like the way he talks about soldiers , hes just alienated himself from them , by making fun of them showing them as crazed baby killer then tring to make us fell sorry for them because there in a place they dont need to be in . In harms way because of an uneeded war brought to you by president Bush .He very effectivley plays both sides of the fence good job you fat fucking slob . he shows clips of them acting all all pumped up saying the most ignorant things during the major combat (this goofy carzy stuff is what needs to be in your head while this is going on while you doing these things so you dont go crazy at the time ...sort it all out when you get home), he detracts from any military action taken by the us basically since world war two this can be argued but please dont , then he makes us feel sorry for them while showing clips on them of Christmas , then shows clips of dead childeren almost calling them baby killers .
Iraq is Vietnam revisited because this is the way the press has painted it this way .
Yes post war planning was week its been taken day by day .
I hear people talking about Haliburton and KBR , these are our national defense companies what they do basically is make it so that the united states can have a military of under 2 million and in a time of war they can start handling non combat related issues and take an increasingly part as things die down or theres less of dangerous they start taking a more active role . The Us military has things like Cooks , truck drivers , fuellers , civil enigineers ect kbr and Haliburton takes the strain off of them and helps them get shorter tours . Without having defense contractors we would need a number more 3+ million military on some sort of a payrole . Add this up for twenty years and haliburton is a much cheaper solution .
Haliburton has been at every major conflict in one way or another for 15+ years Id guess . In fact many seasoned soldiers in Iraq were wondering when theys arive because they were there in past conflicts and made the standard of living better . Its not a new company or anything that just started getting major contracts after cheney was elected .
This point and people who arguee it "teh ****" as you guys say .
Yes they need to be regulated and coprate fraud needs need to be exposed .
Bushes biggest mistake was not going to war right after he got a blank check to do anything he wanted he had a 70%+ aprroval rating at the time for doing so he should have gone only gone to the un one more time not three times . Six more months is a long time to get buyers remorse . By the way the people who voted for the blank check were all democrats , a republican majority hadnt been voted in yet . "I voted for it before I voted against it" some dude said that .
THe counsil was corrupt France and Rusia lost lots of oil and past owed debts because of this war and thats why they voted no in the end and Germany voted nuetral .
Bushes further arguemnets after the first trip to the un after the blank check got weeker and weeker this is what gives all you liberal on this board and in the media fuel . For example Sadam wanted to buy inriched uranium from nigeria ... so what even if it was true . Bush stutters and isnt this best speaker this countries ever had . This movie loves to point that out .
This movie like to point out the fact that only one persons family is currentley in Iraq out of five hundered . Im willing to bet this is higher than the national average . Lets do some math i bet is flawed but youll get my point theres 293,027,571 people living in America today lets say the average family consits of 4.7 people (but some people are single and not married ) well then there somebodies kid and they qualify as part of a family . any ways 4.07/293,027,571 ok theres 71,996,946 families in America there have been 250,000 military members in the area since the Iraq war started iraq started so divide 250,000 by 71 alomost 72 million thats saying that no one family has two member that went to iraq , that equals .0034 percent have had members in iraq divide 1 into 154 members on the senate and congress and that equals .006 percent as you guys like to say .006>.003 . Im tired this may all be wrong . who cares moore just stated a goofy point that doesnt mean a damned thing .
Anyways hes playing the race class card this is totally false , minority are slighty underrepresented in today military . But in combat arms (the people who see the most action and are most likely to be killed )THEY ARE HIGHLEY the minority PERIOD . this is a real proven stat somewhere most intelligent people know it . I forgot how many people are in a infantry platoon lets say 50 people at most at most theres gonna be two black folks thats 4 percent . black people make up 14% of the general american population . This is because there smart and say thats crazy shit , I want a job thats safer and can possibley transfred into the civilian world so they do job likes medicine , logistics , engineering ect .
Also the military has high standards , people who have gotten in trouble have had a major illness mental or physical , have taken drugs or serious medication ,
dont meet metal or physical apptitude tests are not accepted . To me this profile that the military is looking for doesnt scream minority , poor or inner city . Some people do join for college money so at best it says middle or working class .
Trust me theres lots of people like Pat Tillman who couldve been doing somthing better but felt a patriotic call .
Terorists declared war on the united States of America . Freedom has many enemy enemies in terrorism on all sides , including but not limited to one with racial agedas , religous , idealogical and political . We were attacked though specically by fundamentalist right wing muslims of moslty middle eastern persian creed . This area is know as sotheast asia , the middle east or the persian gulf .
Whos the craziest mofo in the area who causes the most hatred against america ?
I have to say its a tie btween him and Arifat .Point in hand Sadam Hussien is a crazy motherfucker . No body can arguee with that fact .
THe war in Iraq wasnt over oil , food , power .
It was over a decade of playing the United States , the Un and its international treaties as a joke .
Btw the way I hope the media , you neysayers and Moore are happy , youve all detracted from your militarys moral , so many people are out there saying "theres no reason for me to be here , im getting shot at missing my family in this 150 degrees wearing 100 pounds of crap , and why for what the tv told me im out here for no reason except a personal vendetta for Bush . Do you all think this helps them do a better job or helps them think clearer ? It certainley gives the insurgents fuel for there fire and makes them all think your a bunch of week willed pansey asses who are worried about loosing you comfort levels above all else , and can be easily swayed . Anyways morals a real killer .
Good job you guys youve killed hundereds of american soldier and Iraqi civilians .
The Us was friends with Sadam and explioted its relationship :
Yes very true . Up untill the gulf war Sadam was very anti religion this is how dictators rule ...the people dont need god they are god or there is no god or somthing I dunno In fact Islam was practically outlawed by him for 20 years Anyways my point is he was one one the LEAST radical religous leaders and countries in the region . Thats who we have had problems with is the radicals . After we saw him doing crazy stuff like gassing his own people we started to distance oursleves from him . After the gulf war he turned to Islam to rally other countrys around him to his side after King Hussien of Jordan was the only one to give any kind of support .
Ok so I saw the movie is was pretty much junk .
the only part I agree with is that not enough blame has been placed on the saudis or said about thes connections .
Bush won by majoral vote not popular , so what its fucked up lets change the system ..do somthing about it instead of bitching . This system is old and outdated based on a time back when some areas got more votes because of influence and intellignce . Today we have the technology to count make a popular vote election happen . So you who dont like it make it happen .
Then the movie goes on to talk about talk about how Bush has taken away civil liberties . I got news for gore fans the mans a socialist he believes like the movie men in black says humans as a whole are ingnornt beings and need to be protected from themselves . Maybe its true or not but this wasnt what America was founded on . It was founded on the freedom of press , freedom to assemble bear arms ect . Why Clinton was plugging away Gore had his own agenda , what laws did gore get passed :
1.Certain book types were made illegal , like but not including the anarchist cookbook ect .
2.Music perental warnings and if you want to buy most non pop united albums go gotta go downtown to buy them casue walmat and target doesnt sell them .
3.Rating systems on video games can be inforcedable by id checking .
4. Tv rating system .
5. The need to pay $20 more for a v-chip on every tv because anyday now all tv are mandated to have them wether you want them or not .
6. After he invented the internet :make_fac: he wanted to censor and tax it but very shortly after changed his mind after he saw is wasnt possible and internet companies are loosing money .
Now before you say these are all good things , its not what he originally intended ... thats just what he settled for . Ive read hundereds of pages of manuscripts of him talking about censorship or things like tv , books and video games and the mans doesnt believe in or has loose interpritations of:
1.The true freedom of speech
2.The freedom of press
3.The right to assemble
I believe if gore was elected he wouldnt have even made it public what rights of yours hes taken away . BTW project carnivore was started during the Clinton adminstration . How much press was made over this ?
The text that you have entered is too long (11999 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long.
I dont like the way he talks about soldiers , hes just alienated himself from them , by making fun of them showing them as crazed baby killer then tring to make us fell sorry for them because there in a place they dont need to be in . In harms way because of an uneeded war brought to you by president Bush .He very effectivley plays both sides of the fence good job you fat fucking slob . he shows clips of them acting all all pumped up saying the most ignorant things during the major combat (this goofy carzy stuff is what needs to be in your head while this is going on while you doing these things so you dont go crazy at the time ...sort it all out when you get home), he detracts from any military action taken by the us basically since world war two this can be argued but please dont , then he makes us feel sorry for them while showing clips on them of Christmas , then shows clips of dead childeren almost calling them baby killers .
Iraq is Vietnam revisited because this is the way the press has painted it this way .
Yes post war planning was week its been taken day by day .
I hear people talking about Haliburton and KBR , these are our national defense companies what they do basically is make it so that the united states can have a military of under 2 million and in a time of war they can start handling non combat related issues and take an increasingly part as things die down or theres less of dangerous they start taking a more active role . The Us military has things like Cooks , truck drivers , fuellers , civil enigineers ect kbr and Haliburton takes the strain off of them and helps them get shorter tours . Without having defense contractors we would need a number more 3+ million military on some sort of a payrole . Add this up for twenty years and haliburton is a much cheaper solution .
Haliburton has been at every major conflict in one way or another for 15+ years Id guess . In fact many seasoned soldiers in Iraq were wondering when theys arive because they were there in past conflicts and made the standard of living better . Its not a new company or anything that just started getting major contracts after cheney was elected .
This point and people who arguee it "teh ****" as you guys say .
Yes they need to be regulated and coprate fraud needs need to be exposed .
Bushes biggest mistake was not going to war right after he got a blank check to do anything he wanted he had a 70%+ aprroval rating at the time for doing so he should have gone only gone to the un one more time not three times . Six more months is a long time to get buyers remorse . By the way the people who voted for the blank check were all democrats , a republican majority hadnt been voted in yet . "I voted for it before I voted against it" some dude said that .
THe counsil was corrupt France and Rusia lost lots of oil and past owed debts because of this war and thats why they voted no in the end and Germany voted nuetral .
Bushes further arguemnets after the first trip to the un after the blank check got weeker and weeker this is what gives all you liberal on this board and in the media fuel . For example Sadam wanted to buy inriched uranium from nigeria ... so what even if it was true . Bush stutters and isnt this best speaker this countries ever had . This movie loves to point that out .
This movie like to point out the fact that only one persons family is currentley in Iraq out of five hundered . Im willing to bet this is higher than the national average . Lets do some math i bet is flawed but youll get my point theres 293,027,571 people living in America today lets say the average family consits of 4.7 people (but some people are single and not married ) well then there somebodies kid and they qualify as part of a family . any ways 4.07/293,027,571 ok theres 71,996,946 families in America there have been 250,000 military members in the area since the Iraq war started iraq started so divide 250,000 by 71 alomost 72 million thats saying that no one family has two member that went to iraq , that equals .0034 percent have had members in iraq divide 1 into 154 members on the senate and congress and that equals .006 percent as you guys like to say .006>.003 . Im tired this may all be wrong . who cares moore just stated a goofy point that doesnt mean a damned thing .
Anyways hes playing the race class card this is totally false , minority are slighty underrepresented in today military . But in combat arms (the people who see the most action and are most likely to be killed )THEY ARE HIGHLEY the minority PERIOD . this is a real proven stat somewhere most intelligent people know it . I forgot how many people are in a infantry platoon lets say 50 people at most at most theres gonna be two black folks thats 4 percent . black people make up 14% of the general american population . This is because there smart and say thats crazy shit , I want a job thats safer and can possibley transfred into the civilian world so they do job likes medicine , logistics , engineering ect .
Also the military has high standards , people who have gotten in trouble have had a major illness mental or physical , have taken drugs or serious medication ,
dont meet metal or physical apptitude tests are not accepted . To me this profile that the military is looking for doesnt scream minority , poor or inner city . Some people do join for college money so at best it says middle or working class .
Trust me theres lots of people like Pat Tillman who couldve been doing somthing better but felt a patriotic call .
Terorists declared war on the united States of America . Freedom has many enemy enemies in terrorism on all sides , including but not limited to one with racial agedas , religous , idealogical and political . We were attacked though specically by fundamentalist right wing muslims of moslty middle eastern persian creed . This area is know as sotheast asia , the middle east or the persian gulf .
Whos the craziest mofo in the area who causes the most hatred against america ?
I have to say its a tie btween him and Arifat .Point in hand Sadam Hussien is a crazy motherfucker . No body can arguee with that fact .
THe war in Iraq wasnt over oil , food , power .
It was over a decade of playing the United States , the Un and its international treaties as a joke .
Btw the way I hope the media , you neysayers and Moore are happy , youve all detracted from your militarys moral , so many people are out there saying "theres no reason for me to be here , im getting shot at missing my family in this 150 degrees wearing 100 pounds of crap , and why for what the tv told me im out here for no reason except a personal vendetta for Bush . Do you all think this helps them do a better job or helps them think clearer ? It certainley gives the insurgents fuel for there fire and makes them all think your a bunch of week willed pansey asses who are worried about loosing you comfort levels above all else , and can be easily swayed . Anyways morals a real killer .
Good job you guys youve killed hundereds of american soldier and Iraqi civilians .
just to add im me im not a true republician or democrat .
I believe in abortion
I believe in god
i believe in legalizing drugs
i believe god should stay in the pledge and on money and in oaths we arnt a goddless nation and muslims , jews and christians all share the same god .
I also believe to many US laws are judeo christian based .
i believe in socialized medicine .
I believe in free education past a high school level .
i believe it non censorship in all forms of print and media .
I believe creationism and evolution can co-exist .
Cliton was a decent president and really slick .
Bush is not slick and has horrible foriegn policies and relations .
Id believe somthing I heard from Bush before Clinton .
vertigo said somthing in the reagan post i kinda agree with .
When it came time too vote last time ..I didnt
I saw either recession and war
or socialism
If I HAD to choose at gunpoint id choose war and reccesion any day , and keep my freedoms .
I believe in abortion
I believe in god
i believe in legalizing drugs
i believe god should stay in the pledge and on money and in oaths we arnt a goddless nation and muslims , jews and christians all share the same god .
I also believe to many US laws are judeo christian based .
i believe in socialized medicine .
I believe in free education past a high school level .
i believe it non censorship in all forms of print and media .
I believe creationism and evolution can co-exist .
Cliton was a decent president and really slick .
Bush is not slick and has horrible foriegn policies and relations .
Id believe somthing I heard from Bush before Clinton .
vertigo said somthing in the reagan post i kinda agree with .
When it came time too vote last time ..I didnt
I saw either recession and war
or socialism
If I HAD to choose at gunpoint id choose war and reccesion any day , and keep my freedoms .
Seeing that I don't have the slightest interest in Fahrenheit 9/11, nor any of the America/ Iraq/ Terrorists/ Sadam riffraff, I won't be taking part in this discussion. But I am a little bit shocked and amazed at the amount of time you guys have spent writing all this... stuff 
*leaves thread* :auto
*leaves thread* :auto