Translating Grandia

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Jackafur

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For sanity, how does the original Japanese disc behave?
yea the retail copy of the game does the same thing unfortunately. If I get another saturn i'll report back but for now it just seems its just my old model 1 saturn acting up. i hooked up a multimeter to the rf and ground on the optical drive and the voltages seemed pretty reasonable. 3.18 with the game running.


Do another clean rip of your original disc at the lowest speed possible. Maybe the problem is with your iso. Also, try another CDR.
thanks for the suggestion but ive tried 2 different drives at their slowest speeds on 2 different kinds of media including jvc silvers. also like i mentioned it looks like a retail version of the game acts the same on my saturn.
 

samson7point1

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yea the retail copy of the game does the same thing unfortunately. If I get another saturn i'll report back but for now it just seems its just my old model 1 saturn acting up. i hooked up a multimeter to the rf and ground on the optical drive and the voltages seemed pretty reasonable. 3.18 with the game running.



thanks for the suggestion but ive tried 2 different drives at their slowest speeds on 2 different kinds of media including jvc silvers. also like i mentioned it looks like a retail version of the game acts the same on my saturn.
I might have missed it, but has the Saturn been re-capped? Bad/leaky caps aren't always obvious and they can cause all manner of logic errors like this.
 

nanash1

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Besides the battle screen tiles that can already be decompressed and re-compressed and the two tiles on the battle results screen, are there any other tiles that need translation?
 

nanash1

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So I finished the new version of my compression tool. Usage has changed a lot so re-read the readme. In a nut shell, the separate table offset is gone since the information there is always the same. Compression now supports all known modes and custom tables. I've tested the battle results screen and was able to compress, edit and recompress the Kanji tiles. As I said above, if there are more tiles that need translation please tell me so I can look into those.

PS: It's probably best to recompress all images that are already done with the new version. The old version had a bug that could mess up the stop conditions of the encoded stream and cause the game write out of bounds.
 

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Yes, as far as I know those are the only compressed graphics that need to be translated. Thanks again for creating this utility.
 

samson7point1

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nah i havent re-capped it. I could give it a try though. I don't know all the caps I would need so would something like this be ok
Sega Saturn Cap Kit: Leaded Through Hole Type
If your Saturn has through hole caps then yes. Console5 is awesome. If your Saturn has surface mount capacitors the SMD kit would be a more appropriate replacement. It requires rework equipment and knowledge of how to use it, but you really need that equipment to safely get SMD caps off anyway. Usually when I’m dealing with SMD caps I replace everything but the audio amp caps with ceramics, but that might be a bit more work than you’re looking to bite off.
 

Jackafur

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If your Saturn has through hole caps then yes. Console5 is awesome. If your Saturn has surface mount capacitors the SMD kit would be a more appropriate replacement. It requires rework equipment and knowledge of how to use it, but you really need that equipment to safely get SMD caps off anyway. Usually when I’m dealing with SMD caps I replace everything but the audio amp caps with ceramics, but that might be a bit more work than you’re looking to bite off.
im probably just gonna get a newer model saturn. i have a decent soldering iron and a hot air gun but i dont have a desoldering/rework station or anything.
 

samson7point1

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Honestly any Saturn you get that hasn't been recapped has the potential to have bad caps, no matter what model it is. The Saturns themselves may have been manufactured years apart but most of the capacitors were purchased in bulk and used by the factory for years. It's a crap shoot either way, but any time I start seeing wonky behavior from a 90's era console, I replace the caps and most of the time that's all it takes. Though I do have two with original caps that seem to work as well as the day I bought them, so YMMV.
 

nanash1

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I think this is the final version of my compression tool. At this point I just wanted to wrap this up and fix some bugs and problems I found while messing with character sprites. This new version doesn't really add anything new as far as the translation is concerned, unless you want to try different compression modes and tables. This release also includes the source code. If there's anything else I can help with just say it and I'll give it a try.
 

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Fakkor

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Can anyone confirm if this game works fine with the patch on SSF?
I did everything on the txt file, with several images I found on the net... it just doesn't work for me... any version of the patch! :(
 

Ardiloso

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Can anyone confirm if this game works fine with the patch on SSF?
I did everything on the txt file, with several images I found on the net... it just doesn't work for me... any version of the patch! :(
Yes it works. I play on the original hardware but always test the iso with SSF before burning it to the disc.
 

samson7point1

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Can anyone confirm if this game works fine with the patch on SSF?
I did everything on the txt file, with several images I found on the net... it just doesn't work for me... any version of the patch! :(
I own three different original versions of the game, two of the first "Green" release and one of the "Memorial" package, no matter what settings I ripped them with my checksums would never match the ones in the readme. I finally broke down and just started downloading every single version of the game I could find posted anywhere and managed to find one upload with matching checksums. My advice is: keep looking, it's out there.
 
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Can anyone confirm if this game works fine with the patch on SSF?
I did everything on the txt file, with several images I found on the net... it just doesn't work for me... any version of the patch! :(
I own three different original versions of the game, two of the first "Green" release and one of the "Memorial" package, no matter what settings I ripped them with my checksums would never match the ones in the readme. I finally broke down and just started downloading every single version of the game I could find posted anywhere and managed to find one upload with matching checksums. My advice is: keep looking, it's out there.
Not to come off as condescending, but please read the readme more carefully. The checksum is not for the entire disc image itself, but for the Data Track. You need to extract the data track (this is the actual ISO file) from the BIN/CUE first and patch that. Every CD-ROM drive handles audio offsets differently and as a result will create rips that while functionally equivalent and have all the same data, dont match as far as checksums are concerned. Extracting the data track from the audio track resolves this issue.

This process is all described in the Readme as well as the two tutorial videos out there.
 

Fakkor

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Not to come off as condescending, but please read the readme more carefully. The checksum is not for the entire disc image itself, but for the Data Track. You need to extract the data track (this is the actual ISO file) from the BIN/CUE first and patch that. Every CD-ROM drive handles audio offsets differently and as a result will create rips that while functionally equivalent and have all the same data, dont match as far as checksums are concerned. Extracting the data track from the audio track resolves this issue.

This process is all described in the Readme as well as the two tutorial videos out there.
No, man. I've been doing things right. I've extracting the iso with isobuster just as you said and like the video that other guy uploaded some time ago. I've extracted session 1 from BINs and other rarer image types found on the net, an eventually I even found an ISO + WAV... but it didn't work with it.
Every single time I patch these, it says "patching complete" but then the emulator shows the videos with trashy sound, the one you'd expect from misreads.
Other emulators like yabause won't even make it into the videos.

I even tried with a different patching tool.

It's quite frustrating because I REALLY want to play this :(
 
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Walk me through the exact process you are doing step by step from ripping your original disc/acquiring whatever rip you have, to trying it out on your emulator/console.
 

samson7point1

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Not to come off as condescending, but please read the readme more carefully. The checksum is not for the entire disc image itself, but for the Data Track. You need to extract the data track (this is the actual ISO file) from the BIN/CUE first and patch that. Every CD-ROM drive handles audio offsets differently and as a result will create rips that while functionally equivalent and have all the same data, dont match as far as checksums are concerned. Extracting the data track from the audio track resolves this issue.

This process is all described in the Readme as well as the two tutorial videos out there.
I don't take it as condescending. Your instructions were clear and it was clear you went to great pains to make sure they would work. I followed them precisely. I've used these tools since the late 90's to manipulate CD images in all kinds of crazy ways. I *thought* I was pretty good at it, but no matter what I did the extracted data tracks from my original discs never matched the CRC in your readme. I extracted from all three of my originals and about four other copies I found elsewhere that also had a different CRC for the data track. I finally stumbled across one that extracted with a CRC that matched the one in your readme and that's the one I used. I followed the same process in each case but it only worked on a particular rip floating around on the net. I can't explain it, but it seemed like that other guy might be having the same problem so I was just trying to offer some words of encouragement.
 
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I don't take it as condescending. Your instructions were clear and it was clear you went to great pains to make sure they would work. I followed them precisely. I've used these tools since the late 90's to manipulate CD images in all kinds of crazy ways. I *thought* I was pretty good at it, but no matter what I did the extracted data tracks from my original discs never matched the CRC in your readme. I extracted from all three of my originals and about four other copies I found elsewhere that also had a different CRC for the data track. I finally stumbled across one that extracted with a CRC that matched the one in your readme and that's the one I used. I followed the same process in each case but it only worked on a particular rip floating around on the net. I can't explain it, but it seemed like that other guy might be having the same problem so I was just trying to offer some words of encouragement.
Out of curiousity what did you use to calculate the checksum? I just open the iso in something like Hex Workshop and select generate checksum. I'd be interested in seeing what the checksums were for your personal rips.

As for images I've found online, this is what I found for the ones on EmuParadise:

Standard Disc 1 and 2 releases:

Good rips, checksums for the extracted data tracks match my personal rips.

Memorial Package Releases:
Bad rips, can't even extract the data track from these as IsoBuster, IMGBurn, etc. run into corrupt sectors on both discs.

I also checked the ISO/WAV/CUE rip on GameTronik and the checksum for it matches my rips as well.
 

Fakkor

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Out of curiousity what did you use to calculate the checksum? I just open the iso in something like Hex Workshop and select generate checksum. I'd be interested in seeing what the checksums were for your personal rips.

As for images I've found online, this is what I found for the ones on EmuParadise:

Standard Disc 1 and 2 releases:
Good rips, checksums for the extracted data tracks match my personal rips.

Memorial Package Releases:
Bad rips, can't even extract the data track from these as IsoBuster, IMGBurn, etc. run into corrupt sectors on both discs.

I also checked the ISO/WAV/CUE rip on GameTronik and the checksum for it matches my rips as well.

After several tries, I reached out the conclusion that it really wasn't the iso's fault (because it failed again... but so did the original un-patched file).
The error was that I hadn't set the emulator properly:

Grandia (FMV issues): Set "Dot Clock" on 3.7 or above. Set "SlaveSH2 Speed" to 90%, Set "EZ Setting" to Highest.

This solved most of the issues. There are some little, very minor glitches on fight scenes, but nothing to be alarmed of.

Thanks to everyone!
 

bmn

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If I might post my own experience/method - I used bash (on Windows Subsystem for Linux, but the experience should be the same on *nix platforms) for the patching process which some people may prefer. You may need to install the bchunk and xdelta3 packages.

I got the original discs from The Eye (dumped by group Darkwater), original output from md5sum:
Bash:
# md5sum *
07b2a151d73b1ae6d2e1cdbc00285eb8  Grandia (Disc 1 of 2) (JAP) (DW0080).bin
ac0849955abf6a7477766fc7aecbe223  Grandia (Disc 1 of 2) (JAP) (DW0080).cue
bb41081dbea1bc0f3e25e1609be10ac1  Grandia (Disc 2 of 2) (JAP) (DW0080).bin
3c7c1bcff24ce3c2a345bc687ca58366  Grandia (Disc 2 of 2) (JAP) (DW0080).cue
Used bchunk to extract the data ISO and WAV:
Bash:
# bchunk "Grandia (Disc 1 of 2) (JAP) (DW0080).bin" "Grandia (Disc 1 of 2) (JAP) (DW0080).cue" "Disc_1_"
...
Reading the CUE file:

Track  1: MODE1/2352    01 00:00:00
Track  2: AUDIO         01 58:26:16

Writing tracks:

1: Disc_1_01.iso  513/513  MB  [********************] 100 %
2: Disc_1_02.wav    1/1    MB  [********************] 100 %
The extracted ISOs seem to match TrekkiesUnite's rip I think:
Bash:
# md5sum Disc_*
d1c273b9871a34e5d7a7168e30cdb421  Disc_1_01.iso
7d7835d8480670a4d6002e6a1d276d1e  Disc_1_02.wav
366b9aec6b3ffe8dc3fd7b1eeeba0fba  Disc_2_01.iso
f205e056e6a8ed62e797764cdf5f1465  Disc_2_02.wav
Used xdelta3 to apply the patch:
Bash:
# xdelta3 -dfs Disc_1_01.iso SS_Grandia_Disc1_v0.62.1.xdelta Disc_1_Patched_01.iso

# md5sum *_Patched_*
2bfec74045c63e67c6287e43f3340ce7  Disc_1_Patched_01.iso
691095b08853d975642f6cb4a64eb057  Disc_2_Patched_01.iso
Replacement CUE file (of course you can change filenames to your preference...):
Code:
FILE "Disc_1_Patched_01.iso" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE1/2048
      INDEX 01 00:00:00
      POSTGAP 00:02:00
FILE "Disc_1_02.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    PREGAP 00:02:00
    INDEX 01 00:00:00

The translation seems to be fine (I'm halfway through Disc 2) on Mednafen (Mednafen itself, as well as Retroarch's Beetle Saturn core), though the movie playback is terrible. That's the case on the original Japanese CUE/BIN as well, though.

I did fall foul of a documented bug in Mednafen:
Grandia (Japan) - Hangs at end of first disc(spinning on a VDP1 register, probably a timing issue), right near the start of the disc swap information screen(which itself is before the save screen). The hang can be worked around by going into the debugger when the game hangs, and changing the value in the "r2" register from 0 to 2(preferably while in step mode, just before the "tst" instruction is executed).
Again, this isn't an issue with the translation, but perhaps might be worth mentioning in passing in the README? I don't think Retroarch offers a way to get into the debugger, so I ended up renaming a save state to put it into Mednafen, getting past the hang, then going the other way round to get the state back into Retroarch :p


In any case, big thanks to you guys for all the work in getting this going. I've wanted to see what the more-than-1fps-in-the-intro version of Grandia was like for ages...
 
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