Wal Mart.. Good or Evil

[it290]

No offence but they're walmart, do you honestly think if a few thousand people boycott it'll shut them down?

No indeed, I'm not boycotting them because I want to shut them down, but simply because I prefer not to shop there. It's a personal choice, and not a political/social action, and I'm not doing so because of any organized movement. In fact, I have no desire to see Wal-Mart close their doors; I just wish they would change their policies and tactics.

I should also mention that part of the reason I dislike them is because I believe their founder, Sam Walton, was a bigoted, fascist prick. He's dead now, but he set in place many of the policies that are still driving the company today.

 

[ExCyber]

I believe their founder, Sam Walton, was a bigoted, fascist prick.

References would be appreciated.

Anyway, what's really creepy is the way Wal-Mart management acts like a cult of personality centered around Sam Walton, or as they like to call him, "Mr. Sam". They talk more or less like he still runs Wal-Mart from beyond the grave and Bud is just head of the company for legal reasons. I don't know if this is some kind of pseudo-religious scheme intended to implant a "Wal-Mart conscience" into workers, or if they genuinely idolize the guy that much. Wal-Mart is kind of Orwellian in other ways too; most notably there is never, ever a "problem" at Wal-Mart, there are "opportunities for improvement". It's one thing to tell people to think of it this way, but it's extremely jarring to hear someone say "we have an opportunity in aisle 20". Wal-Mart is also quite anti-union - they have training videos that are oddly remniscient of D.A.R.E., with union reps playing the role of dealers. Of course they say they are "not anti-union", it's just that a union would get in the way of such a wonderful company that cares about its associates so much...

 

[VertigoXX]

Okay, so my town's mayor made this huge deal about getting a Wal-Mart SuperCenter built here. 500 more jobs for our town, right? Wrong. Within eight months of Wal-Mart opening here, our Ames closed down, several grocery stores went under, and dozens upon dozens of small businesses from downtown disappeared. All said and done, there may have been 500 crappy pay jobs added, but over 800 other people lost their livelihood. In a town of just over 6,000 people, well, you do the math. (And the local K-Mart is dying now, they're expected to close within the next 18 months.)

That's not counting the fact that the Lowes in the same plaza and the Home Depot on the other side of town drove all but one True-Value Hardware out of business, as well as two lumber yards and three Ace Hardware stores.

And now the village idiot (aka the mayor) is gearing up to have a Target built about a half mile down the road from Wal-Mart.

 

[aaron]

he's probably getting some phat kickback from both of those companies.

 

[Adrock]

Its simple captalism in operation here. There is a demand and WalMart can supply exactly what is demanded. The doom stories from people that one day WalMart might be the only choice and they would make you buy the stuff they say is absolute rubbish. Even if there is a big company like WalMart there is a still an opportunity for new companies to grow under WalMart's nose and maybe even grow to challenge WalMart in some areas.

Also VertigoXX you cant really blame WalMart for the stupidity of your Mayor can you? Clearly the mayor is a weak person and he has sailed his entire constituency down the river

 

[mtxblau]

Yes, while Wal-mart is the plague of sorts, there are still options. Much like Nintendo and Sega. Or Microsoft and Linux (one could argue Macintosh as well, but you aren't really getting away from MS by going to Apple...)

Anyway.

The mayor did though screw up. There definetly was no systems analysis of installing a Walmart within the vicinity... I mean, this kind of thing has happened all over, not just from whence you came.

 

[racketboy]

Originally posted by VertigoXX@Jan 22, 2004 @ 03:52 PM

Okay, so my town's mayor made this huge deal about getting a Wal-Mart SuperCenter built here. 500 more jobs for our town, right? Wrong. Within eight months of Wal-Mart opening here, our Ames closed down, several grocery stores went under, and dozens upon dozens of small businesses from downtown disappeared. All said and done, there may have been 500 crappy pay jobs added, but over 800 other people lost their livelihood. In a town of just over 6,000 people, well, you do the math. (And the local K-Mart is dying now, they're expected to close within the next 18 months.)

That's not counting the fact that the Lowes in the same plaza and the Home Depot on the other side of town drove all but one True-Value Hardware out of business, as well as two lumber yards and three Ace Hardware stores.

And now the village idiot (aka the mayor) is gearing up to have a Target built about a half mile down the road from Wal-Mart.

When it comes down to business, if you can't compete, you go away

Even if you can't sell stuff as cheap, you need to make the merchandise or experience good enough to make up for it. A lot of the stores that get shut down because of Walmart just are good enough to cut it.

Target is a good example. They don't sell as cheap, but the stores are nicer and some of their merchandise is nicer. So they still get a good amount of business. K-mart almost completely gone because their prices weren't that great, their selection sucked, customer service was lacking, and their stores were dirty. I'm glad their gone.

 

[thailees]

wallfart is similar to vons over here in california... :lol: cutting benfits , firing workers etc.... u have workers that worked there over years n get fired n now they hire employees with no job experience that get paid more then the fired workers..how scanless!! oh well im only there to shop cuz prices are cheap 😛

 

[it290]

The problem with all you 'capitalism rules and can do no wrong' types is that you don't realize that it's basically impossible to compete with Wal-Mart's pricing and ability to throw their weight around while maintaining fair labor standards. And don't get started with Target, K-Mart, etc., because they are pretty much in the same boat as Wal-mart as far as that goes.

 

[racketboy]

you can't compete for the same market (people who only want the best price). You have to market toward another market -- richer, snobbier people -- or afficianados of a certain item. Look at designer clothes lines. They definately aren't cheap. But some people insist on getting them.

 

[Quadriflax]

Wal-Mart sucks. Period. We had a supercenter move in a year or so ago. It was dirty within a week. I went grocery shopping there with my friend a week ago and it took farking forever to get the hell out of there, and there wasn't much on his list. People walk around without paying attention (or just don't give a crap that they're heading straight for you), the floor is always dirty as shit, the lanes are PACKED full of people and it takes at least 1/2 hour to check out, and the prices aren't even that good. Yeah, there's some cheap generic shit you can get there for low prices that you can't really anywhere else, but screw it. It ain't worth the pain of dealing with that place. Anyone who knows about Wegmans frickin' knows that's where you buy your damn groceries. It's almost like an attraction they're so damn awesome. Seriously. It's one of those things out of towners are simply awed by. As for the rest of the crap, I'd much rather go to Target. Although it's not as close to me, it's much cleaner.

And I know Wal-Mart bullies the company I work for into selling them shit for lower prices. Screw 'em. Since they built a new Fastrac on my commute home, I don't even need to get my gas there any more. Blah.

 

[racketboy]

walmart stores can vary greatly.

The one in Vacaville sucks bad. Crowded, small eisles, out of stock items, unfriendly staff, so-so selection.

The one in Fairfield is significantly better in all respects.

Now the one in Michigan where my parents live was turned into a supercenter a couple years ago. It's great. I don't really have any complaints.

There was another one down in the LA Area (around Disneyland) that was quite good as well.

My wife and I hate going to ours. But we love going to the one in MI.

 

[it290]

Right. So basically, if your store sells general merchandise, and you decide that paying your employees a fair wage, giving them decent benefits, and allowing them to unionize is a good thing, you're basically screwed. If you don't have a huge amount of leverage with your vendors (gained by the ability to purchase huge amounts of product at a time), you're also screwed. There is no such thing as 'high-end' when it comes to tupperware, or popcorn, or half of the other things that Wal-Mart sells. You might get some customers who shop your store because they appreciate your business ethics or because your location is convienient for them, but the vast majority will be shopping Wal-Mart, because of price.

 

[racketboy]

well then don't sell tupperware 🙂

 

[it290]

References would be appreciated.

Sorry, I missed this earlier. I don't have any direct references re the bigot thing, it's basically just an inference I've drawn from various quotes and other tidbits I've read over the years. So it remains basically an assumption, but I have no reason to disbelieve it.

As far as the pseudo-fascist thing goes, I think the very practices you mentioned earlier speak volumes. I'm sure alot of that was developed by other execs, but the cult of personality, the universal attitude an employee is supposed to have, the greeters, and other things would all tend to suggest almost a contempt for individuality and individual rights, IMHO.

 

[Pearl Jammzz]

I agree w/ Racket.....Our Target around here does good cuz they have better/nicer things than wallyworld. They dont get as much buisness but they get a lot and are definatly going to be here for awhile.

BTW, I stood outside Target for like 2hrs to get my Gamecube...was FREEZING! but worth it Ü. I am a fan of Target.....sum of their stuff.

 

[scorch56]

Hey racket! Vacaville? Fairfield? Heh! I was stationed at Travis for 2 years! Lived off base in Fairfield though. My wife worked "fragrances" at the Emporium Capwell's in the mall.. now THAT was a store! Mmmm.. Monte Cristo sandwiches in the cafe downstairs.. mmm. :yum

 

[racketboy]

Hey a Travis man huh?

There's a lot of ya around here 🙂

 

[scorch56]

Originally posted by racketboy@Jan 22, 2004 @ 06:51 PM

Hey a Travis man huh?

There's a lot of ya around here 🙂

..Heh..yeah. Which is why I got the hell outta' Dodge as fast as I could after I'd been "set free".

<_<

 

[ExCyber]

you can't compete for the same market (people who only want the best price). You have to market toward another market -- richer, snobbier people -- or afficianados of a certain item. Look at designer clothes lines. They definately aren't cheap. But some people insist on getting them.

The problem is that nothing stops Wal-Mart / Sam's Club (the company, not the stores) from going after the same people (with proper marketing, nobody's going to care that Wal-Mart owns the store any more than people care that Oreos are owned by a tobacco company), and if they do you have little choice but to go complain to the government, try to stir up grassroots opposition, or close your doors and move on to the next niche that they haven't targeted yet. Your best bet is probably to get into nanotechnology/biotechnology so that you have some chance of outliving the usefulness of mass distribution of prefabricated consumer goods.