Which has better picture, PAL 60Hz or NTSC 60 Hz?

7

New Member
Which has better picture, PAL 60Hz or NTSC 60 Hz? Note: PAL 60 Hz, 50Hz doesn't count and NTSC is only at 60 Hz so the question is PAL at 60Hz vs. NTSC
 

Jurai

Ban Hammered
Originally posted by 007@May 5, 2003 @ 10:06 PM

Which has better picture, PAL 60Hz or NTSC 60 Hz? Note: PAL 60 Hz, 50Hz doesn't count and NTSC is only at 60 Hz so the question is PAL at 60Hz vs. NTSC
obviously pal 60hz since it has extra lines of resolution

edit:

but i accidently voted for ntsc, oh well
 

7

New Member
Yeah, PAL has bigger resolution but still after playing DC at NTSC and at PAL on my VGA I have a feeling that NTSC is alittle better but maybe thats because the games I have are US and are NTSC optimized but I really am not sure, maybe there wasn't any difference at all, I'll have to go back at observe both again

hey and also why are Japanese using NTSC, Japanese people are pretty smart when it comes to technology. What do you think?
 

ExCyber

Staff member
AFAIK, "PAL 60Hz" generally means PAL color encoding with NTSC scan rates. If that's the case, then there won't be extra lines of resolution, though it seems to be generally accepted that PAL's color encoding is nicer than NTSC's, so PAL would probably win anyway. RGB kicks both of them square in the ass though; composite video sucks.
 

antime

Extra Hard Mid Boss
Yes, "PAL60" has an identical resolution to NTSC (in fact, the format is often called NTSC 4.43, meaning "NTSC with a sub-carrier colour frequency of 4.43MHz" as opposed to NTSC 3.58 which is the "normal" version of NTSC).
 

racketboy

Member
Originally posted by 007@May 6, 2003 @ 03:06 AM

Which has better picture, PAL 60Hz or NTSC 60 Hz? Note: PAL 60 Hz, 50Hz doesn't count and NTSC is only at 60 Hz so the question is PAL at 60Hz vs. NTSC
ya know, ya could always go with VGA
 

7

New Member
hey but still, even through VGA it uses the pal ot NTSC resolution so the picture should be different
 

gameboy900

New Member
Originally posted by 007@May 7, 2003 @ 05:55 PM

hey but still, even through VGA it uses the pal ot NTSC resolution so the picture should be different
Not true. VGA uses true 640x480 resolution at a full frame 60fps. While pal and ntsc get the internal 640x480 image streched out to the 720x480 and 720x576 (or something like that I forget the actual numbers). Also pal and ntsc only really show a half height image (ie 240 or 288) each of the 60 frames due to interlacing. (To get a full 480 or 576 high image you need to use two consecutive fields on a tv which drops the fps to 30).
 

M3d10n

New Member
Here in Brazil we've been using PAL60 (aka: PAL-M) since the sixties. :)

My TV-out videocard can output to any analog TV encoding standard known to man, and I can tell I hardly notice any difference between the PAL color encoding and the NTSC color encoding (my TV supports both). The difference is only noticeable when some specific flat colors covers the screen.

More notably, the "safe mode" windows green color, often seen in the background of old install appz. I was using NTSC, and tought my TV got gaussed, since there was a pink gradient on some areas of the screen (close to the top and close to the bottom). I found it weird, because after closing the isntall app, the pink spots were gone. Then I found the pink spots dissapeared under PAL color, it it became obvious it was some sort of NTSC color limitation.
 

Alexvrb

Member
What if you're running an NTSC game on an NTSC TV, but aren't connecting through composite? Meaning 3-wire RCA, S-video, or component? Medion mentioned using TV-out on his PC, but through what?
 

M3d10n

New Member
I was using composite. My TV lacks S-video, and I've only seen one TV in my whole life that had RGB support.

But, in general, what you get from moving from composite to s-video, and from s-video to RGB is merely less color bleeding: a sharper, less-blurry, picture.

I heard that using RGB leads with low-res consoles allow you to see the actual pixels as squares, like in emulators :p
 

Taelon

Member
Originally posted by Alexvrb@May 8, 2003 @ 02:33 PM

What if you're running an NTSC game on an NTSC TV, but aren't connecting through composite? Meaning 3-wire RCA, S-video, or component? Medion mentioned using TV-out on his PC, but through what?
Well, composite as well as S-video use the brightness/color encoding that define the PAL and NTSC standards. RGB, as well as VGA and component (DVD) hookups bypass the encoding entirely and just deliver the signals as they are, so you can't even call those kind of hookups "PAL" or "NTSC" anymore. Some people still do, but they refer to the refresh rate: 50Hz or 60Hz.
 

Alexvrb

Member
That's what I wanted to know. Although, I do notice a difference in the colors when going from composite to s-video with my Dreamcast. It just looks more vivid. But mainly I just wanted to know if they were still NTSC. I just got component cables for my brother's Toshiba DVD player and it looks fantastic. Not bad considering we got the player on sale for 55 bucks and the 5-plug component (3 video, 2 audio) cable for around 20 bucks (not locally, the component cables are around double that in the stores here).
 

AntiPasta

New Member
Originally posted by M3d10n@May 9, 2003 @ 06:00 PM

I was using composite. My TV lacks S-video, and I've only seen one TV in my whole life that had RGB support.

lol on what planet are you living? Almost all TVs with a SCART input have RGB support; true, I have yet to see a TV outside of Japan that has RGB+audio on separate plugs, as well as a graphics card that can output RGB via it's tv-out...
 

7

New Member
Some body explain what RGB and SCART are? Here in the States all we have is RF, A/V, and S-Video, the new one s high defention port but i haven't seen them yet. So what are SCART and RGB, and what type of picture quality do they have?
 

ExCyber

Staff member
Some body explain what RGB and SCART are? Here in the States all we have is RF, A/V, and S-Video, the new one s high defention port but i haven't seen them yet.
SCART is a nominally European connector standard for television sets. It carries RGB, composite video, S-Video, and left/right audio all on a single connector standard. I'd imagine that this is absurdly convenient on several levels compared to the connector soup that US consumers have to put up with.

RGB is more or less equivalent in quality to the "component video" (i.e. color difference video) connections used by DVD players in the US. Color difference video is slightly more convenient for DVD players, because MPEG-2 streams natively decode to a color difference format, but RGB is considered to be the gold standard for most other types of display generation. Arcade monitors typically take RGB inputs, as do most modern computer monitors (standard VGA / Super VGA outputs are RGB). Virtually all color displays use RGB internally to drive the electron beams.

RGB stands for "Red Green Blue", and refers to the primary colors that trigger the human visual system. The signal consists of a level for each of these colors; when combined, they can make virtually any color that humans can see.

Color difference video is convenient for compression applications. Instead of treating the image as a composite of the primary colors, it's encoded as a black & white signal plus signals that describe how biased the image is toward red and blue (green is reconstructed from the brightness). Since brightness is much more important than color to perceived image quality, this actually works rather well, and allows compression schemes to throw away more color data than brightness data. It's one step closer to S-Video, but since the signals are derived with simple mathematical operations instead of having to be combined/separated on each end, the quality loss is negligible.
 

Jurai

Ban Hammered
people should stop replying to this post with information that is completely wrong and just shows they have no fucking clue what they are talking about
aka 90% of the above posts
 
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