Why does Windows 98 SE confound me?

[Taelon]

I just skimmed over this topic, and unless I looked wrong, I thought mal said his computer ran an AMD K6-2 at 550MHz.

The native bus frequency for that chip is indeed 100MHz, not 66.

But what hasn't been brought up yet... mal, did you install any UPDATES at all

(i.e. let Windows Update run its course)? Over 98SE's lifetime there have been

zillions of updates, some less important but others critical to system stability.

At least one patch I can think of is aimed at running Win98SE on AMD CPUs

faster than 350MHz.

I think you ought to give this one a whirl. (Obviously, don't just install ALL found updates blindly,

just uncheck the unnecessary ones like new IE, new DirectX, demo software,

components you don't have/need, etc.)

Good luck...!

 

[Tindo@heart]

Originally posted by Taelon@Jul 28, 2003 @ 05:23 PM

At least one patch I can think of is aimed at running Win98SE on AMD CPUs

faster than 350MHz.

I think you ought to give this one a whirl. (Obviously, don't just install ALL found updates blindly,

just uncheck the unnecessary ones like new IE, new DirectX, demo software,

components you don't have/need, etc.)

Good luck...!

That's a Windows 95 update, not 98 or 98SE.

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/ar...s/Q192/8/41.ASP

Keep us posted Mal. I just recently heard that the K6-2 that I worked on is experiencing random crashes.

 

[mal]

Sorry, I've been playing too much LotGD.

I dropped it back to 333MHz on a 66MHz bus and it was going OK for a day or so as I slowly re-installed the various bits of software that I either wanted or needed.

Detonators - OK

Win98 updates - OK

Netscape Communicator - OK (we use Calendar at work)

Acrobat Reader 5 - OK

Direct X 8.1 - Errors start

I'm going to do a bit more testing, but I think that is at least one of the culprits identified.

 

[Kidderz]

WHy not use Windows 2000?

 

[mal]

I'm planning on eventually having dual boot 98/2000, but I've got to get 98 stable first.

 

[Curtis]

Heh - DirectX 8.1 probably doesn't like your soundcard - you'd have to admit it is pretty crusty by today's standards

You should be able to get an equal quality (but PCI) model off ebay for a few dollars. Probably wont fix your problems though.

 

[mal]

It seems happy enough with it, but I'll try a swap.

It didn't cost me anything so I'm not too worried.

 

[Curtis]

Nah...I probably would waste my time. I had an ISA SB16 in a windows 98SE box recently (P2 233, Intel LX chipset), and I'm fairly sure it ran well. It is possible that I never got around to installing Dx8.1 on it though...

 

[Tindo@heart]

great, dx8. . . That might be my problem too. I remember installing dx8 on that machine. It has a crappy on-board video and a ISA AWE64 soundcard. I think the crappy SIS chipset/video card is the main culprit though.

 

[mal]

Could a dodgy vidoe card have been stuffing things up?

I pulled the GeForce 2 (which was doing some minor odd stuff) and put back the S3 Virge. The SB16 went as well.

I then did a very basic install - Win 98 SE and all updates (except directX and IE), Communicator, Acrobat and Novell client. So far so good.

After a couple of days I ramped the speed back up to 550MHz. Still going OK

At one point I also tried updating the mobo bios to a newer version, because the one I'm using doesn't recognize that it's a K6-2 - it thinks it's a plain old K6.

This however resulted in the machine not being able to be booted from a floppy.

I then flashed the damned thing back again.

 

[Curtis]

The video card probably isn't dodgy, but the motherboard may not be able to cope with it. Was it the PCI or AGP model? That's a strange bios bug - you'd have thought they'd spot that one before making it a final release...

 

[ExCyber]

Could a dodgy vidoe card have been stuffing things up?

Absolutely. A GF2 could have also been straining the PSU and causing problems (this happened to my brother's crappy uATX computer).

At one point I also tried updating the mobo bios to a newer version, because the one I'm using doesn't recognize that it's a K6-2 - it thinks it's a plain old K6.

This however resulted in the machine not being able to be booted from a floppy.

Did you go into BIOS setup and reset all the settings? The update could have caused them to reinitialize to some wacky defaults. Also, does it just skip the floppy boot, or does it try it and lock up / error?

By the way, it's worth noting that memtest86 won't find all memory-related glitches; some only show up with the weird sorts of access patterns thrown around by apps (C compilers and archivers being good examples of ones that are likely to visibly break if they stumble over a memory error).

 

[mal]

It's an AGP card. I'd get the odd flickering during start up and also of some icons as the desktop appeared.

I really don't know what's up with the bios updates. I tried two of them; both of them flashed OK and I was able to flash them back OK too. But try to start from a floppy? It would get part way and freeze. Either that or cover the screen in '£' symbols. :huh

My luck with flashing the bios has improved however - when I first tried it under Win95 it wouldn't recognize the mouse after restarting. I'd mostly forgotten how to navigate using only the keyboard. :lol:

 

[mal]

Heh, I took so long responding to Curtis that ExCyber well and truly outposted me. :lol:

I thought that it was running OK this afternoon and so I tried adding a PCI sound card (Vibra 128). Yes, I know it's a creative card. You don't easily get much else here...

Just before I left work it had started crashing again.

It had been running for a couple of hours since installing the sound card and I'd been listening to a CD so it could be PSU related. I'll take it out again and see what happens.

I must admit, I hadn't gone in to change the bios settings. I didn't think of that and as soon as I discovered that it wouldn't boot from a floppy I decided to give them up as dud. Something else I'll try again.

BTW the floppy would try to boot and then just stop. :huh

 

[mal]

A couple of steps forward and one a bit sideways...

I flashed the bios again and had a poke around the setting afterwards. Nothing seemed out of place and it now boots from floppies OK. :huh

It's been running OK for most of the day and I even ran Sandra's 'burn in' wizard a few times to stress test it and everything came up fine.

However, after putting the case lid back on (and the monitor on top - it's a desktop) there's my error again. CPU overheating? PSU overheating? Buggered if I know.

 

[Curtis]

It seems unlikely that a processor of that vintage/speed would overheat - so long as you have a basic heatsink and fan. ExCyber's suspicion about the power supply is the best bet yet - any idea of the power rating? Even the old GF2's will suck up a fair bit of power. If the PSU is particularly cheap and nasty, it could explain the "overheating" if indeed that is what it is doing.

Clutching at straws, I've seen a computer fail to work correctly when the motherboard wasn't securly attached to the case... :huh

 

[mal]

I tried it with the case on again and it went really screwy.

It ended with a really hard crash and an auto 'registery recover'. Or something like that...

The CPU heatsink was actually a little warm to the touch afterwards whereas normally it's quite cool. I'm going to try blowing some dust out of the PSU tomorrow and see what that does.

The PSU shouldn't be under too much stress ATM as the GF2 is still out - the old PCI vid card is in instead. Mind you, I suspect it's only 230W.

 

[Curtis]

Modern CPUs overheat at 60 degrees - if it's only warm to the touch, it isn't anywhere near overheated. That's not to say it isn't damaged in some other way though - perhaps heat stress in the past has caused the die to crack...

I dunno...you've got one freaky computer there! Most of the time computers either work or not, if they are not working then what is wrong with them is easy to trace.

Just to clarify, do you only have a video card in the machine at the moment? 230 watts should be enough to run everything in that system. Get MBM 5 and see if it yields any useful diagnostic information. Given the age of the motheboard, I wouldn't expect too much though...

 

[mal]

Freaky? Tell me about it.

It hasn't just got the video card; it's got a sound card and an ethernet card too. There's also the HD and CDR as well.

I've tried MBM before but it didn't offer much info. It can't hurt to try again...

For some damn reason it goes all crap with the case enclosed. :huh

 

[mal]

And the winner is...

Bus speed.

I tried installing Win2K just for the hell of it and I got probably every error under the sun while running it at 5.5 * 100MHz, yet at 5.5 * 66Mhz it installed without a hiccup. That shits me a bit, as I'd rather have a 550MHz system than a 366Mhz system, but at least it's stable now.