Anyone else sick of hearing from people like this?

[Dud]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/24/...ain676446.shtml

I know I am. Everytime a game pushes the envelope a little bit, these anti-videogame-violence fairies stir up this decade old debate that never accomplishes anything. And for the record, I think GTA is too unrealistic to be taken seriously.

I only posted this because I've never seen someone so extreme in their views as the guy interviewed in the article. I figured there would be others here that also have some strong opinions. Also it could be a problem for gamers if too many people like this start popping up.

 

[tsumake]

Well, people are extreme about so many things, so why not video games?

 

[ExCyber]

Yeah, I'm pretty tired of it. I think there are a handful of games that it would be better that young children not play, but it seems that every time this happens there is a particular game that is suddenly the target - Mortal Kombat, Doom (this was particularly hilarious/depressing given that Doom was practically ancient when the Columbine shooting happened), GTA...

Even so, this guy is so full of crap that it's practically over the top:

Any M-rated game has violence levels unacceptable and definitionally harmful to anyone under 17.

It is not a release of aggression. It is training for aggression.

Of course, as you actually grow neural pathways called dendrites that enable you to perform more easily the physical acts of violence.

I'm sorry, but a basketball games goal is to score more points, not maim the other player. That is where sportsmanship comes in. There is no sportsmanship in any GTA game. None.

The federal government found that in the school year 2003, there were 48 school killings. The year before that there were 16, and the year before that 17. Something is going on. I submit that the video game generation is coming of age.

You just watch. There is going to be a Columbine-times-10 incident, and everyone will finally get it. Either that, or some video gamer is going to go Columbine at some video game exec's expense or at E3, and then the industry will begin to realize that there is no place to hide, that it has trained a nation of Manchurian Children.

Manchurian Children? Sorry, I think the aluminum in that "tin"foil hat is clogging his dendrites. I have a young cousin who plays GTA: San Andreas quite a bit. When he turns off the PS2 he does his homework or goes outside and rides his scooter and skateboard with the neighborhood kids. Nobody gets shot or carjacked or maimed. He knows it's just a video game. What we really need to fix this kind of problem is proper education and possibly treatment for the people (not just kids) who aren't capable of making that distinction between fantasy (not just video games) and reality. But that would require universal medical coverage, and we can't have that because it's socialism.

 

[mrkotfw]

this is complete bull shit. i'm going to go play gta4 now so i can train myself better to kill. (that was a joke) either this guy is pissed because he sucks at playing games or he just can't find anything else to bitch about.

 

[Dud]

These are murder simulators. Manhunt has been called the video game equivalent of a snuff film.

He obviously doesn't analyze what he calls videogame snuff. IMO Manhunt fails as a game, but does extremely well as a dark comedy, it just happens to be about a guy making a snuff film. Moreover, I see no reason why anyone would be angry enough to hurt somebody after playing Manhunt, nothing sooths anger like smashing a white supremesist's head. Seriously, the game is a great stress reliever, it does the exact opposite of what these people say it does.

I am working with an Oakland, CA prosecutor in a murder trial in which the older gang members used GTA 3 to train teens to do carjackings and murders. The Army uses these games to break down the inhibition to kill of new recruits.

Gangs trained their gangmembers with GTA3? That's probably why you're prosecuting them you stupid fuck. If these games really taught people to kill, they wouldn't get caught so easily and after doing minimal damage. (I'm not trying to downplay the Columbine incident or anything, I'm referring to the other 90% of "videogame related crime") The army uses the same games to train new recruits, possibly but they mainly use their own game America's Army, and not to numb their mind so they kill more easily, it's because videogames are a great educationl tool for teaching tactics and what not without anyone getting hurt. I know the guy will never read this post, but I like replying in this format. 😀

 

[Dud]

Originally posted by ExCyber@Tue, 2005-03-08 @ 07:57 PM

What we really need to fix this kind of problem is proper education and possibly treatment for the people (not just kids) who aren't capable of making that distinction between fantasy (not just video games) and reality. But that would require universal medical coverage, and we can't have that because it's socialism.

[post=131086]Quoted post[/post]​

^I must of missed that part the first read.

I don't know if I agree with that completely. I'm kind of the flagship for not giving your kids drugs, as such I don't think anyone under 18 should be given drugs for minor mental illnesses (LIKE IT SAYS ON THE GODDAMNED BOTTLE) For example I have Social Anxiety + Bipolar II, and the two amplify each other, so it's not fun, but manageable. I've never felt like shooting shit up more than when I was on those drugs. 🙁

 

[crystalmethod]

You know, drugs aren't the only solution Dud, although its usually the easiest and most prescribed...

 

[ExCyber]

I don't know if I agree with that completely. I'm kind of the flagship for not giving your kids drugs, as such I don't think anyone under 18 should be given drugs for minor mental illnesses (LIKE IT SAYS ON THE GODDAMNED BOTTLE) For example I have Social Anxiety + Bipolar II, and the two amplify each other, so it's not fun, but manageable. I've never felt like shooting shit up more than when I was on those drugs.

Having been on Tofranil, Anafranil, and Paxil myself, I pretty much agree that drugs are not the universal answer, and I think they are often abused. But there's more to treatment than drugs. You have a huge advantage in simply knowing something about your disorders. You've consulted with someone who is (presumably) an expert - or the closest thing that exists to one given the state of the art - in such disorders. If you're lucky, you're in an environment where people recognize that it is a mental illness and not a character flaw. All I'm saying is that people who are having mental health problems need to have that opportunity if we want to catch the more severe problems before they get out of control, and I fail to see how people without medical insurance (and, as I understand it, many people who do have medical insurance but have a cheaper plan that has only token mental health coverage) are going to get it. When one of them decides to go on a rampage, we (as a society) will say, as we have said so many times before: "oh, it's just some crazy guy", as though it can't be helped.

 

[it290]

I'm a supporter of universal health coverage myself, but I think the general consensus is that drugs are overprescribed today. Many doctors, particularly in the mental health field, don't bother to make a thorough diagnosis of their patients before prescribing drugs. Of course, it can be argued that this problem is due to the current system in place. Drugs aside, I simply don't know if the country has the resources to try and prevent these problems before they occur. Many people with violent tendencies are reclusive, and their problems often go unnoticed until it's too late. Perhaps it could be done with some type of mandatory mental health treatment, but I certainly don't like the implications of that. If anything, I'd just like to see more research dollars being spent on mental health research... it's something that doesn't get enough attention in my opinion, partially because the most lucrative mental health drugs are those that treat common problems such as depression.

 

[ExCyber]

Many people with violent tendencies are reclusive, and their problems often go unnoticed until it's too late.

This might not be the case so much if more people actually took mental health issues seriously. I very strongly suspect that most people who become reclusive are essentially trained to do so by the social interactions they have earlier in life.

 

[lordofduct]

Its not these drugs treat.... they more like cause it.

I am not an expert, I don't know the truth, but come on! When we have drugs like paxel, zoloft and prozac being prescribed (as you brought up general depression) when these drugs themselves cause depression!

How about we stop depending on these stupid drugs and see where it takes us. I can't help but wonder why ever since the occurence mental disorders going up corrolates with when mental health pills start having a release on the public. Is this escapism for the masses or brilliant marketing, or both marketing to the fact we want to escape our lives. Ew, disgusting, I will never touch a pill in my life.

But what ever, everyone go ahead and take your pills. Stick your head out and say I have this problem and that problem. And that you take this pill and that pill to help you. OH MY, YOU HAVE IT SO ROUGH! No, your a pussy cause you need a drug to help you get over a problem EVERYONE has.

We all get depressed, we all get attention crazed, we all get FATIGUE. These bullshit diseases piss me off. I had ADD when I was a kid... for 10 minutes, then my dad beat it out of me!

Mental health needs work. There ARE diseases out there that aren't just common stressors. They need to lose this archaic abuse though to help these people. You ever spend a stinkin' day in there. These kids who are truly sick (and possibly the ones who have the extreme violent psychotic out bursts could be borderline this... but depression BS.) should not be neglected they way they are. I wasn't even allowed to hug my own fucking sibling. How the hell is he to recover from anything when he isn't allowed to show affection to his own stinken family?

 

[it290]

I agree, most mental health institutions (probably, but not necessarily excepting those intended for the wealthy) are in a sorry state. I'm sure some of you are aware of the incident recently where they found all those ashes up in Oregon. Well, the director of the mental health system in that state made a comment about it, essentially saying 'this just shows you how far we've come in mental health treatment'. Sorry, but I don't think so. In my opinion, most institutions continue to be little more than 'lock 'em up and throw away the key' facilities.

I also agree with you that drugs are overprescribed, as I stated above. However, I do think that there are some people that need medication. I just think that in many cases, the wrong drugs are given to the wrong people. Even so, with the knowledge that we are continually gaining about the workings of the brain, it would be socially irresponsible not to try and use that knowledge.... unfortunately, it is being misapplied all too often.

 

[crystalmethod]

Lordofduct, I usually have respect for what you say, but that last post of yours was probably one of the most idiotic things i've ever read on the internet. Ever.

People with mental health problems often times have neurochemical imbalances in the brain which can sometimes ONLY be cured by medication which alters this chemistry. While SSRI's like and ridalin can be overprescribed (at one time, it was the most prescribed drug in the world) you'll have to show me where you got your information stating they cause depression as well.

Maybe the affect of going on medication could bring someone down, but that rarely outweighs the long term goals.

I suffer from ADHD, bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder and as a psychology student I am offended that you would think that any of these disorders could be beat out of me or anyone for that matter. Its obvious you didn't have ADD, you had trouble concentrating, they are two very different things.

As for the state of the mental health system, Canada i a very different story as has come to the attention of many on these boards during similar discussions. In the future, please be more considerate when wording your posts, those may be your beliefs but they coincide with those of the middleages. I strongly urge you to do some research in the future before coming out and saying such things.

 

[tsumake]

What duct says is true to a certain degree. Many people are seriously ill, and need medication, but a good majority of people on medication don't need to be. In Anglo-Saxon societies, we have a problem of relating to others on a personal basis, so personal problems build up inside of us with no outlet. This causes neuroses, loneliness, and a "mental disorder" in a lot of people. Not all, but most. I am often "depressed" here in the states, especially at my university Wesleyan. You can't imagine how many times my father wanted me to take an anti-depressant. And you don't know how many times I utterly refused it. When I was in Prague, I met my best friend there, and we talked about personal things, things that really bothered us. It's a normal thing to talk about personal things in Slav Culture. You can't imagine how much better I felt. So, now I'm back, and I know now why I'm depressed: Everyone at Wesleyan is selfish, self-righteous children who only care about their career and use others for gain. There's a good reason why a lot of people hate this kind of medication: it's almost like asking someone to get a lobotomy. Those who are depressed and don't need medication feel something warm inside that is not coming out in any way. Medication simply kills that warmth, thus "no more problem." And that is a sick thing.

 

[ExCyber]

How about we stop depending on these stupid drugs and see where it takes us.

You say that as though we haven't been there already. Tell you what, why don't we stop depending on MRIs and x-rays too, they're also expensive, sometimes misapplied, have unpleasant side effects, and don't solve every problem put before them.

I can't help but wonder why ever since the occurence mental disorders going up corrolates with when mental health pills start having a release on the public.

Assuming that this is true, it's probably because there's not much motivation to diagnose a disease that is (believed to be) untreatable. When a (more) effective treatment comes out, more diagnoses will probably be made because the doctor and/or patient suddenly sees a potential for an actual solution.

Is this escapism for the masses

Speaking as someone who used to take them and stopped, I can emphatically assure you that antidepressants (or at least Tofranil, Anafranil, and Paxil) are not soma. In all likelihood I would still be on them if they could magically make me happy.

I had ADD when I was a kid

ADD is an inability to focus, not an unwillingness to focus. Misdiagnoses notwithstanding, you can't beat ADD out of someone any more than you can beat narcolepsy out of someone. It's a common misconception that all or most mental illnesses can be treated with nothing more than behavioral conditioning, but if that were true these pills wouldn't be quite so profitable; you don't need medical insurance and a prescription to beat a kid or give him candy.

what ever, everyone go ahead and take your pills. Stick your head out and say I have this problem and that problem. And that you take this pill and that pill to help you. OH MY, YOU HAVE IT SO ROUGH! No, your a pussy cause you need a drug to help you get over a problem EVERYONE has.

This is a great example of another common misconception: that <insert mental illness here> is something that everyone has because if you go down the symptom list copied and pasted out of context from the DSM each thing in the list sounds like something you've experienced at some point in the past few years. News flash: people with mental illnesses often struggle with those symptoms every single day, with an intensity that escapes your experience. When you spend a few weeks feeling sorry for yourself because your girlfriend broke up with you, that's not clinical depression. When you're bored and daydreaming and miss something in a lecture, that's not ADD. When you look up at the clouds and "see" interesting shapes that aren't really there, that's not schizophrenia.

There's a good reason why a lot of people hate this kind of medication: it's almost like asking someone to get a lobotomy. Those who are depressed and don't need medication feel something warm inside that is not coming out in any way. Medication simply kills that warmth, thus "no more problem." And that is a sick thing.

This is basically another instance of the concept that I briefly addressed above - that the commonly-prescribed drugs for mental illness are basically soma and somehow rot your mind away and make you artificially happy. That's just reactionary BS cooked up by people who are desperate to keep looking at mental illness as a character flaw. And while there can be some unpleasant effects on some people (again, speaking from experience), it's far from a chemical lobotomy.

 

[tsumake]

Yes, but don't you think that people can come to rely too much on medication? I have no doubt that you needed medication, but do you think everyone who is depressed needs medication? That is the problem. I don't think that Duct or I believe that these drugs should be illegal, but that they are over-prescribed because of misdiagnosis. If you really needed medication, then I am glad you recieved it. But not everyone needs a pill, much like not everyone needs an MRI or an X-Ray. The concern is that medication is used inappropriately.

I was talking from a personal experience. If I felt I needed drugs, then I would have asked for them. But the mere fact that I could feel better from just simply talking to someone on a personal level convinces me that drugs would have made me worse. And my father is a physician.....

 

[siamese]

Originally posted by tsumake@Tue, 2005-03-08 @ 08:49 PM

Well, people are extreme about so many things, so why not video games?

[post=131085]Quoted post[/post]​

if violence is the issue, why not banning automatic guns, assault weapons, alcohol, tuned street cars, free speech, cartoon network, walmart stores, nra meetings, republican conventions, ren & stimpy, united nations, third world countries (you know, the ones that provide innocent rich countries citizens with bad drugs), hunger, ritalin, legal counseling for drug dealers and proven criminals, EVERYTHING ! even breathing.

see, no violence , only paranoia

:banana

 

[ExCyber]

Yes, but don't you think that people can come to rely too much on medication?

Absolutely. It's one of my main concerns about the state of psychiatry today. But I see a lot of reactionary sentiment that more or less boils down to the notion that people with mental illnesses just weren't raised right and need to be beaten and/or that antidepressants are nothing more than "happy pills" taken by people who should just "get over it". That kind of sentiment is every bit as harmful as the idea that drugs can/should fix everything.

 

[Quakester2000]

Well if parents were any good they wouldnt let their kids play violent games easiest as that.

 

[Gallstaff]

Here's my system: If you are a male trying to buy a violent video game and are wearing eye makeup NOT accompanied by lipstick and high heels, you should not be able to complete the transaction.