Radiant Silvergun in English

[Knight0fDragon]

Wow, is that subtitling distracting. It is things like that that is why I advocated for Bulk Slash to not bother with the subtitle route and stick with voice overs.

The STV version on the disc should have the music and voice separated, so redoing it may not be as difficult as you think. When we started this project 16 years ago, it was hard to get people to find time to commit. That is one area that the Bulk Slash team really got it done right.

 

[TrekkiesUnite118]

The Music for the FMVs was released on the official soundtracks, so there's no need to reconstruct them:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

You would just need the sound effects which were all just stock sound effects. Dubbing the intro was done years ago as a proof of concept:

 

[OriginalName]

The Music for the FMVs was released on the official soundtracks, so there's no need to reconstruct them:

(snip)

You would just need the sound effects which were all just stock sound effects. Dubbing the intro was done years ago as a proof of concept:

Absolutely. I must have phrased my post very poorly if it came across like I wanted to actually re-do the music itself, rather than using the OST and stock sound effects as you stated. I definitely wouldn't have had the time or ability to re-do a Hitoshi Sakimoto soundtrack even if it had hypothetically been necessary, haha.

Thank you very much for saving me the trouble of finding the specific OST tracks that correspond to the FMVs! That definitely saves me some time.

 

[OriginalName]

It should be noted that Radiant Silvergun's FMV are encoded using the Cinepak format, so thank you to @TrekkiesUnite118 for providing such extensive documentation on this codec. This'll be extremely helpful.

How To Guide: Encoding Cinepak Videos Properly

So encoding Cinepak Videos can be a bit cumbersome. While Cinepak encoders are a dime a dozen, finding one that will produce something that the Saturn likes while still looking decent is a bit more challenging. AviToSaturn while useable, tends to produce sub-par results, and always garbles the...

segaxtreme.net

 

[OriginalName]

Wow, is that subtitling distracting. It is things like that that is why I advocated for Bulk Slash to not bother with the subtitle route and stick with voice overs.

The STV version on the disc should have the music and voice separated, so redoing it may not be as difficult as you think. When we started this project 16 years ago, it was hard to get people to find time to commit. That is one area that the Bulk Slash team really got it done right.

I'll do a deep-dive once I'm settled in to my new place, but opening the Saturn version up in PowerISO I can confirm that voice over files are already separate from the BGM audio tracks. Thankfully, this means that new voice-over dubs can be "dropped in" in place of the original Japanese for in-game audio. To be honest, I had completely taken it for granted that something along these lines would be the case for in-game audio (I think that might be what made my earlier post so unclear), but I can now confirm it.

The major exception to this for in-game audio is the one-minute "survival" portion of the final boss section. In this case, the .CDA has both voice-over and music baked in together. Thankfully the music without voice over is available separately on the OST, so this is no major hurdle.



As for FMVs, of course those consist of a single audio track, which will require me to create a new audio track for each using a combination of the corresponding tracks from the OST, stock sound effects, and new voice-over dubs.

Can't seem to find any footage of the XBLA FMV without subtitles. I've tried searching in Japanese as well. Once I'm settled in I'll download the XBLA version and see if I can find the FMV without subtitles baked in. Hopefully I can get a source without subtitles baked in, as the subs used in the XBLA version are far too small to be legible in Cinepak video. Personally, I think it would look too sloppy to have new, larger subtitles overlaid on top of the XBLA version's smaller subtitles. If they are baked in, we'll have to decide whether it's better to put black bars underneath the new, larger subtitles (pro: would cover up the original subtitles; con: would also cover up more of the video than would be desired) or to use the Saturn FMV as a base (pro: no subtitles to cover up; con: re-encoding this video would mean compressing an already compressed video... would not look good).

 

[TrekkiesUnite118]

Which voices are you talking about? The pilot chatter isn't in the ST-V version. That was put in for the Saturn version and is stored as CD Audio on the disc. Some of them are just voices, others are voices + Sound Effects + Music.

If you're going to dub the stuff, there's no need to find a new video as you can just swap the audio in the original Cinepak videos.

 

[Ardiloso]

I'll do a deep-dive once I'm settled in to my new place, but opening the Saturn version up in PowerISO I can confirm that voice over files are already separate from the BGM audio tracks. Thankfully, this means that new voice-over dubs can be "dropped in" in place of the original Japanese for in-game audio. To be honest, I had completely taken it for granted that something along these lines would be the case for in-game audio (I think that might be what made my earlier post so unclear), but I can now confirm it.

The major exception to this for in-game audio is the one-minute "survival" portion of the final boss section. In this case, the .CDA has both voice-over and music baked in together. Thankfully the music without voice over is available separately on the OST, so this is no major hurdle.



As for FMVs, of course those consist of a single audio track, which will require me to create a new audio track for each using a combination of the corresponding tracks from the OST, stock sound effects, and new voice-over dubs.

Can't seem to find any footage of the XBLA FMV without subtitles. I've tried searching in Japanese as well. Once I'm settled in I'll download the XBLA version and see if I can find the FMV without subtitles baked in. Hopefully I can get a source without subtitles baked in, as the subs used in the XBLA version are far too small to be legible in Cinepak video. Personally, I think it would look too sloppy to have new, larger subtitles overlaid on top of the XBLA version's smaller subtitles. If they are baked in, we'll have to decide whether it's better to put black bars underneath the new, larger subtitles (pro: would cover up the original subtitles; con: would also cover up more of the video than would be desired) or to use the Saturn FMV as a base (pro: no subtitles to cover up; con: re-encoding this video would mean compressing an already compressed video... would not look good).

You can disable the subs in game and capture the videos. I've re-subtitled the opening and ending videos for personal use and they turned out really good. If you don't have an Xbox I can share my original captures.

Which voices are you talking about? The pilot chatter isn't in the ST-V version. That was put in for the Saturn version and is stored as CD Audio on the disc. Some of them are just voices, others are voices + Sound Effects + Music.

If you're going to dub the stuff, there's no need to find a new video as you can just swap the audio in the original Cinepak videos.

Oh, and this too.

 

[OriginalName]

@TrekkiesUnite118

In regards to the voices, we're on the same page. My previous post was based on my findings from digging around in PowerISO, so I'm aware of the Saturn/Original version's in-game (meaning non-FMV) radio chatter audio being stored as .CDA files separate from the main BGM, meaning that new dubbed audio .CDA files can be "dropped in" without affecting the main BGM.

As for the "radio chatter" .CDA files that also feature baked-in SFX/music, as in the previously cited example of the one-minute survival portion of the final boss, those will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

I never meant to imply that I believed that the in-game "radio chatter" voice over tracks (including ones that also contain incidental music/SFX) were baked into the main BGM during gameplay. I must have phrased some things poorly and I'm sorry for the confusion.

I assume this is too obvious to be mentioned, but to make sure I'm not misunderstood, the audio for the intro and outro FMV will require a different approach, seeing as all audio (music, SFX, voices) are obviously baked into the .CPK files as a single audio track. So in order to do a new dub for the FMV specifically, the .CPK audio tracks will need to be reconstructed using stock sound effects, music directly from the OST, and, of course, the newly-dubbed voice overs.

I can see the confusion about re-subtitling the intro and outro FMV. I didn't write out my thinking there, and also had a misconception that I wouldn't be able to directly edit/replace the audio tracks in the source .CPK files from the disc. For some reason, I thought I would need to convert the .CPK file into something else more common like a .AVI in order to swap out the audio track then re-encode it as a .CPK, hence my worries about further compressing it. I'm glad you said that -- I guess I had a misconception that .CPK files were super proprietary and couldn't easily have the audio track swapped out without needing to be re-encoded. Thank you for clearing that misconception up.

As for the subtitles themselves, since I was previously under the false impression that I'd need to extract and re-encode the FMV .CPK files anyway, that I should do a re-sub as a way to become familiar with the .CPK encoding process and also have a nice proof of concept and an option to have both a dubbed release and a subbed/dubbed release down the line. If memory serves me correctly, you were able to achieve higher quality FMV than the Saturn original in your Lunar: SSS translation by using a higher definition source and re-encoding it. I also thought that could be a perk, with or without new subtitles.

So, thank you for making me realize that it's not strictly necessary, though I may still consider creating a new .CPK from the HD XBLA source and a subtitled FMV ISO option as potential QOL improvements.

 

[OriginalName]

@Ardiloso

Yes, if you could please send me your captures I'd greatly appreciate it!

 

[TrekkiesUnite118]

The original Cinepak encoding for Radiant Silvergun isn't bad by any means. Treasure knew what they were doing and since they were in control of the animation they knew exactly how they were animated. The FMVs are encoded at 12fps in full screen resolution. If the animation was done on 2's then that means they didn't lose any frames of animation in that process. So as a result the bit rate budget is well managed and you get a very nice looking encode.

The reason Lunar came out better wasn't because we used the PC version's FMVs, it's because we managed the bitrate budget better by reducing the frame rate to 12-15fps in scenes we could get away with it, and used more of the available disc space to increase the size of them.

 

[Ardiloso]

@Ardiloso

Yes, if you could please send me your captures I'd greatly appreciate it!

Here. download
These were captured in 1080P using Xbox's Game DVR feature. You have to crop the borders out and trim the videos.
edit: if you want the subtitles to try the encoding, here, just sync them to your videos.

 

[OriginalName]

Here. download
These were captured in 1080P using Xbox's Game DVR feature. You have to crop the borders out and trim the videos.
edit: if you want the subtitles to try the encoding, here, just sync them to your videos.

Sorry for the long delay, responding from the bottom of a mountain of storage containers at my new place -- thank you so much!!!

Trekkies has illuminated the encoding situation a bit more, but this still provides me with more options, flexibility, and reference material.

Definitely a "special thanks" is in order.

 

[sanctumsys]

Wow, is that subtitling distracting. It is things like that that is why I advocated for Bulk Slash to not bother with the subtitle route and stick with voice overs.

hey, i know you probably didn't have ill intent here but i had to make an account and put in my thoughts on this.
some of us prefer or require subtitles, and the Bulk Slash translation project is a bit of a different case here. in Bulk Slash the during-gameplay voiceovers weren't originally subtitled and it would have been a lot of effort to add them in, which also applies here, but the scenes in Bulk Slash that had story-important dialogue are on screens with text and voice acting both. in the case of Radiant Silvergun, the FMVs contain important story development that is not subtitled, which would leave many of us wanting to play it as such left at the sidelines. in the case of Radiant Silvergun i think it would be reasonable to split the patch into subtitled and non-subtitled variants since the subs would only affect the FMV scenes anyway
also, why are subtitles distracting in the first place? if you don't need them just ignore them, you don't need to alienate other players from the experience just because you don't want to see the words on the screen. if Bulk Slash had during-gameplay subtitles i would have way appreciated it, it would make the game far more accessible for myself and others

 

[Knight0fDragon]

hey, i know you probably didn't have ill intent here but i had to make an account and put in my thoughts on this.
some of us prefer or require subtitles, and the Bulk Slash translation project is a bit of a different case here. in Bulk Slash the during-gameplay voiceovers weren't originally subtitled and it would have been a lot of effort to add them in, which also applies here, but the scenes in Bulk Slash that had story-important dialogue are on screens with text and voice acting both. in the case of Radiant Silvergun, the FMVs contain important story development that is not subtitled, which would leave many of us wanting to play it as such left at the sidelines. in the case of Radiant Silvergun i think it would be reasonable to split the patch into subtitled and non-subtitled variants since the subs would only affect the FMV scenes anyway
also, why are subtitles distracting in the first place? if you don't need them just ignore them, you don't need to alienate other players from the experience just because you don't want to see the words on the screen. if Bulk Slash had during-gameplay subtitles i would have way appreciated it, it would make the game far more accessible for myself and others

You did not watch what I was commenting on then

 

[TrekkiesUnite118]

hey, i know you probably didn't have ill intent here but i had to make an account and put in my thoughts on this.
some of us prefer or require subtitles, and the Bulk Slash translation project is a bit of a different case here. in Bulk Slash the during-gameplay voiceovers weren't originally subtitled and it would have been a lot of effort to add them in, which also applies here, but the scenes in Bulk Slash that had story-important dialogue are on screens with text and voice acting both. in the case of Radiant Silvergun, the FMVs contain important story development that is not subtitled, which would leave many of us wanting to play it as such left at the sidelines. in the case of Radiant Silvergun i think it would be reasonable to split the patch into subtitled and non-subtitled variants since the subs would only affect the FMV scenes anyway
also, why are subtitles distracting in the first place? if you don't need them just ignore them, you don't need to alienate other players from the experience just because you don't want to see the words on the screen. if Bulk Slash had during-gameplay subtitles i would have way appreciated it, it would make the game far more accessible for myself and others

He's talking about the subs that were added in the XBLA version during gameplay. They're hard to read and if you do actually try to read them during gameplay it's very likely to get you killed.

As for adding subtitles in the Saturn version there's a few issues there and it's a similar boat to Bulk Slash:

• There's just as much plot in the pilot voice chatter as there is in the FMVs. So those would need to be subbed.
  • We don't even know how possible it is to add that in. There's some parts where the game can draw text like that but we have no idea if it can be done at will to add subtitles to those spots.
• Subbing the voice chatter as mentioned above is very distracting to the player.
• Having subbed FMVs without subbing the voice chatter comes off as a half-assed attempt if you ask me. And it may be that's the best you can get with that route. I'd much rather not put out something half-assed. Meanwhile if we dub it, we can actually get it all translated and not have it come off as half-assed.

Honestly if you want to play a subtitled version of Radiant Silvergun then go play the Xbox 360 version.

 

[sanctumsys]

He's talking about the subs that were added in the XBLA version during gameplay. They're hard to read and if you do actually try to read them during gameplay it's very likely to get you killed.

As for adding subtitles in the Saturn version there's a few issues there and it's a similar boat to Bulk Slash:

• There's just as much plot in the pilot voice chatter as there is in the FMVs. So those would need to be subbed.
  • We don't even know how possible it is to add that in. There's some parts where the game can draw text like that but we have no idea if it can be done at will to add subtitles to those spots.
• Subbing the voice chatter as mentioned above is very distracting to the player.
• Having subbed FMVs without subbing the voice chatter comes off as a half-assed attempt if you ask me. And it may be that's the best you can get with that route. I'd much rather not put out something half-assed. Meanwhile if we dub it, we can actually get it all translated and not have it come off as half-assed.

Honestly if you want to play a subtitled version of Radiant Silvergun then go play the Xbox 360 version.

evidently i didn't have enough context, but having subs is still pretty important even if it could have been handled better. honestly it seems like the best way to get the actual story in the game would be to watch a longplay instead if there's no way to pause and read the sub backlog
admittedly i did get worked up about calling subtitles distracting (since that's a common anti-accessibility argument) and i apologize for not going deeper into the context before responding, but i still feel like subtitles if possible are an important part of a project like this. the key word being "if possible"
also, if subbing the voice chatter itself is distracting, how is the chatter itself any less distracting? if you're listening for story development that's dividing your focus. anyone playing it for the actual gameplay would play in arcade mode, those looking to experience the story are at a disadvantage either way
i don't know, on one hand i get where you're coming from. half-assed attempts aren't cool and in the case of a romhack i can see how it would be hard if not impossible to add subs where there were none in the original. i'm just saying it feels weird to call subtitles "distracting" when not subbing would cause difficulty for players that need them. are we expected to track down an Xbox 360 and rely on a game distribution service that will probably go down sometime in the future, or watch a longplay and not get to "play through" the story at all, just because players that can hear fine are annoyed by words on the screen?

 

[Ardiloso]

Some games are not designed to have distracting elements on screen like subtitles. Radiant Silvergun is one of them (Bulk Slash too). If you put subtitles during gameplay you are effectively making a lesser version of said game because they have a negative impact on the experience (you just die if you pay attention).

Subs on fmv are fine.

 

[sanctumsys]

Some games are not designed to have distracting elements on screen like subtitles. Radiant Silvergun is one of them (Bulk Slash too). If you put subtitles during gameplay you are effectively making a lesser version of said game because they have a negative impact on the experience (you just die if you pay attention).

Subs on fmv are fine.

have you considered people who are physically incapable of hearing the game audio?
i wasn't even arguing for subtitles during gameplay since i know on a technical level it would be difficult to implement but this response is completely ignoring deaf and hard of hearing players

(you just die if you pay attention)

if it bothers you that much just don't pay attention, gating off an accessible experience because of your personal preferences isn't cool

 

[nando]

I don't think it was clear what you were advocating for - more access to people with hearing issues to follow the story.

 

[TrekkiesUnite118]

evidently i didn't have enough context, but having subs is still pretty important even if it could have been handled better. honestly it seems like the best way to get the actual story in the game would be to watch a longplay instead if there's no way to pause and read the sub backlog
admittedly i did get worked up about calling subtitles distracting (since that's a common anti-accessibility argument) and i apologize for not going deeper into the context before responding, but i still feel like subtitles if possible are an important part of a project like this. the key word being "if possible"
also, if subbing the voice chatter itself is distracting, how is the chatter itself any less distracting? if you're listening for story development that's dividing your focus. anyone playing it for the actual gameplay would play in arcade mode, those looking to experience the story are at a disadvantage either way
i don't know, on one hand i get where you're coming from. half-assed attempts aren't cool and in the case of a romhack i can see how it would be hard if not impossible to add subs where there were none in the original. i'm just saying it feels weird to call subtitles "distracting" when not subbing would cause difficulty for players that need them. are we expected to track down an Xbox 360 and rely on a game distribution service that will probably go down sometime in the future, or watch a longplay and not get to "play through" the story at all, just because players that can hear fine are annoyed by words on the screen?

Again, the subs will be distracting in gameplay, far more so than voices. The voices you can just listen to while keeping your eyes focused on the game. With subs you need to divert your eyes away from the focus of the game to read them. And I'm personally not for doing it half baked where there's subs for the FMVs but then nothing for the in game chatter. A mix of Dub and Sub would be equally jarring. You'll lose out on just as much of the plot without the pilot chatter and be possibly even more lost.

Secondly, I don't see the issue when you'd be no worse off than Japanese players in this situation. They didn't have subs playing it when it released back in the 90s, I don't get why we should be obligated to add them now. Especially if it's not technically feasible.

As for tracking down a 360, it's easier to track down a 360 and buy Radiant Silvergun than it is to get a Saturn and a legitimate copy. It's also backwards compatible so you can get it on Xbox One as well as the Series S and Series X. I think it sometimes even pops up on Game Pass on the Xbox PC app. It's easily the more accessible option and has the subtitles you want and need. Translating the Saturn version would really just be for fun. I don't see why we should be guilt tripped into making the game do something it never did before when there's already an official, easier to access version available with full subtitles.

I'm sorry if this comes off as mean or not caring, I just don't see why we should go out of our way to do this for a small minority of players when there's already a version that accomodates them that's far easier to get a hold of and play.