Translating Lunar Silver Star Story

cww80

New Member
Would it be possible to make a so called definitive edition of the MPEG version that doesn't actually require the MPEG card? Using the new Cinepak rips of course. I have the MPEG card, but it would be cool to lose that requirement and quite a feat I'm sure.
 
Would it be possible to make a so called definitive edition of the MPEG version that doesn't actually require the MPEG card? Using the new Cinepak rips of course. I have the MPEG card, but it would be cool to lose that requirement and quite a feat I'm sure.
Even the best encoded Cinepak isn't going to compete with MPEG encodes. You also have the issue that Mpeg takes up less space than Cinepak. For example, the intro on the original version is 25MB and only runs in a small window with low quality audio. The MPEG version runs at 320x224(full screen) with significantly higher quality audio and only takes up 16MB. At the end of the day all the FMVs have to fit on the disc, and while I can bump them up slightly, I can't crank the quality up to the max as they wont fit on the disc at that point.

I agree its a rather overly complicated process at the moment. However because the current version uses the copyrighted psx script, which is owned by Gamearts, there isnt a way to simply just apply something like an xdelta patch to distribute legally.
I wouldn't worry too much about that. That's what I'm doing with Grandia with Sony's translation and then there's all those Final Fantasy patches that pull scripts from every version under the sun and stick it into another version. If there's a legal battle to be fought over that issue then there's far more lucrative things to go after on RHDN.
 
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cww80

New Member
I'm aware of that, it would be cool for the content and would remove the requirement of having the MPEG card. Only reason I have the card is for Lunar. I would get rid of it otherwise. Also, would be neat to get the original Sega CD soundtrack as well. The Remake has good music, but definitely prefer the originals.
 
I'm aware of that, it would be cool for the content and would remove the requirement of having the MPEG card. Only reason I have the card is for Lunar. I would get rid of it otherwise. Also, would be neat to get the original Sega CD soundtrack as well. The Remake has good music, but definitely prefer the originals.
There's many things that would be cool, but without the source code most of them prove to be quite difficult or impossible. What you're asking for would require either reprogramming the MPEG version to use Cinepak, or reprogramming the Cinepak version to now recognize that new content and assets and know how to use them. Neither of which are really trivial or worth doing when you can just play one version or the other.
 

cww80

New Member
There's many things that would be cool, but without the source code most of them prove to be quite difficult or impossible. What you're asking for would require either reprogramming the MPEG version to use Cinepak, or reprogramming the Cinepak version to now recognize that new content and assets and know how to use them. Neither of which are really trivial or worth doing when you can just play one version or the other.
Alright, thanks for info.
 

klarth

New Member
Got a report that the game freezes when you talk to Ghaleon at Meribia port. Make sure to save prior to this. Will be looking into it.

Update: Script linkage pointers appear to be broken in several files due to differences between SSS and SSSC. Will need to review/edit them manually.
 
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JayBww

New Member
Awesome project! Great work you are doing here.
If you need more testers, I do have 2 Saturn models (0 and 1), and a video cd card.
I'd gladly help anyway I can.
 

Fthlss

New Member
First of all, I would like to thank you and everyone involved in the project for the amazing work!
I've been wanting to play the saturn version for a while now, I loved the sega cd and psx versions.

Even the best encoded Cinepak isn't going to compete with MPEG encodes. You also have the issue that Mpeg takes up less space than Cinepak. For example, the intro on the original version is 25MB and only runs in a small window with low quality audio. The MPEG version runs at 320x224(full screen) with significantly higher quality audio and only takes up 16MB. At the end of the day all the FMVs have to fit on the disc, and while I can bump them up slightly, I can't crank the quality up to the max as they wont fit on the disc at that point.
How much could you crank up the quality if the space wasn't an issue?
I have a Rhea ODE and I'm curious on what we could do if space wasn't a problem, as I believe we can have bigger images on ODEs. I could help testing the bigger version as well.
 
How much could you crank up the quality if the space wasn't an issue?
I have a Rhea ODE and I'm curious on what we could do if space wasn't a problem, as I believe we can have bigger images on ODEs. I could help testing the bigger version as well.
You will still be capped by the 300KB/s bit rate of the disc drive. Probably the best you could hope for is something on par with Tengai Makyou's FMVs. That said, MPEG will still look better because it can compress down better to fit that bit rate cap and it's compression artifacts aren't as jarring as Cinepaks.

And honestly I think it would be silly to make a patch that only works on an ODE. Basically you guys need to accept Saturn Cinepak for what it is and understand that if you want the best looking FMVs for Lunar Silver Star Story on the Saturn, you're gonna have to get the Video CD card.
 
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Fthlss

New Member
You will still be capped by the 300KB/s bit rate of the disc drive. Probably the best you could hope for is something on par with Tengai Makyou's FMVs. That said, MPEG will still look better because it can compress down better to fit that bit rate cap and it's compression artifacts aren't as jarring as Cinepaks.

And honestly I think it would be silly to make a patch that only works on an ODE. Basically you guys need to accept Saturn Cinepak for what it is and understand that if you want the best looking FMVs for Lunar Silver Star Story on the Saturn, you're gonna have to get the Video CD card.
I was hoping for an alternative version, that's all. If improving the Cinepak version is possible and maybe helping with the size limitations in other areas, why not?
 
I was hoping for an alternative version, that's all. If improving the Cinepak version is possible and maybe helping with the size limitations in other areas, why not?
We already are improving the Cinepak version from what it was and it will still fit in the disc size limitations. It just still wont be as good as the MPEG version because it's still Cinepak and it's still all on one disc. If you're thinking that if you just expand to a ridiculous sized ISO that you'll suddenly get full screen FMVs that look as good as the MPEG version you can forget that idea for the following reasons:

  1. While expanding the resolution from 232x152 up to 288x200 worked, going to 320x224 (full screen) did not work as the game crashed when we tried that. There's something about how it's coded that makes that size invalid.
  2. Cinepak is still Cinepak. Even with the best encode you can do that fits in the 300KB/s bitrate limit with as big of a file as you can imagine it's still going to not look as good as MPEG because it's still Cinepak. It's a software codec that's designed to work with a low CPU footprint. So you will still have compression artifacts and it will still clearly be Cinepak. There's a point of diminishing returns you will hit due to the bitrate cap, and the low resolution.
 

Fthlss

New Member
We already are improving the Cinepak version from what it was and it will still fit in the disc size limitations. It just still wont be as good as the MPEG version because it's still Cinepak and it's still all on one disc. If you're thinking that if you just expand to a ridiculous sized ISO that you'll suddenly get full screen FMVs that look as good as the MPEG version you can forget that idea for the following reasons:

  1. While expanding the resolution from 232x152 up to 288x200 worked, going to 320x224 (full screen) did not work as the game crashed when we tried that. There's something about how it's coded that makes that size invalid.
  2. Cinepak is still Cinepak. Even with the best encode you can do that fits in the 300KB/s bitrate limit with as big of a file as you can imagine it's still going to not look as good as MPEG because it's still Cinepak. It's a software codec that's designed to work with a low CPU footprint. So you will still have compression artifacts and it will still clearly be Cinepak. There's a point of diminishing returns you will hit due to the bitrate cap, and the low resolution.
I totally agree and my posts were prior to seeing your test results demonstrating the encoding. I'm perfectly fine with what you have achieved.
It's great to see the love and care you are putting into this project. I really appreciate it!
 

romulo.mpv

New Member
Hello! beautiful work that I downloaded and was playing and realizes that there are some errors, like when I receive something like the dragon's equipment always paralyzes the game and also when I talk like some NPCs it can happen for example there are 2 women 1 in meribia and another in lann that scavenge and Ghaleon in meribia, Dragon wings do not show the names of cities, everything is invisible. I hope this can help you and I would like to know if you have + or - a prediction of when the game will be 100%? Thank you!
 

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klarth

New Member
So in the current build there are several errors that are being fixed, some of which were mentioned on discord.

One is the white dragon wings, where you end up getting a spare item instead that crashes the game if you use it. It turns out there are about 10 items the developers shifted around between SSS and SSSC. This results in buggy items being obtained in several situations (specifically bromides and dragon wings). Ive got a fix for this, just need to test it.

There is also some buggy wording like "ISea Chart" should be "Gave Sea Chart". I need to update 3 or 4 common words that i missed.

Another issue is the script linkage, which i have a preliminary fix up on discord and will post here when the item fixes are addressed. The devs mucked with script pointers in a few files, which will result in undesired behavior when running on SSS. Be aware that this is just a band-aid. A thorough combing of the script is required as there are around a dozen files with drastic changes. Im not 100% sure the game will be able to run to completion in its current state of linkage, just havent had the time to analyze it. This probably accounts for your issues in Lann (Lann's script is a mess).

In Meribia, the singer girl will crash the game. This works fine on real HW. I think this is an emulator bug. If i muck with the script and insert her song anywhere, the game hangs.

And finally theres the dragon wings you noticed. I saw that last night. Still need to investigate, but i think its looking for 2-byte encoding, where i went to 1 byte to save space. Just needs either an ASM hack or reverting to 2-byte encoding for a small section of common phrase memory.

No real eta on when we will have this completed, its a matter of when theres free time to work on it. I'll try to put out a patch update about once a week or so.
 

Ardiloso

New Member
You will still be capped by the 300KB/s bit rate of the disc drive. Probably the best you could hope for is something on par with Tengai Makyou's FMVs. That said, MPEG will still look better because it can compress down better to fit that bit rate cap and it's compression artifacts aren't as jarring as Cinepaks.

And honestly I think it would be silly to make a patch that only works on an ODE. Basically you guys need to accept Saturn Cinepak for what it is and understand that if you want the best looking FMVs for Lunar Silver Star Story on the Saturn, you're gonna have to get the Video CD card.
Have you seen Bomberman Fight's opening on a crt? It blew me away ever since. I think it's the best video I've ever seen on the saturn and better than LSSSC. I was always curious at what this sorcery is.
 

klarth

New Member
This should fix the items (wont get the buggy spare ones anymore) as well as Gave/Lost wording for the 10 or so items that use that text. Looking into the dragon wings locations next...

Update - should be FIXED now, had a batch file script error.

Patch now requires the original psx file, unworked designs will no longer work for now due to xdeltas being applied to a few files.
 

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cww80

New Member
In my current playthrough all was well till I got to Reza with the latest patch. Playing on a model 1 Sega Saturn with Fenrir. I never lost the white dragon wings when they were stolen. I also gained another one when I got them back.

Also, when I got back from Damons spire everyone acted like I already had the Thieves" Crest. Probably has to do with never losing the White Dragon Wings..
 

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klarth

New Member
In my current playthrough all was well till I got to Reza with the latest patch. Playing on a model 1 Sega Saturn with Fenrir. I never lost the white dragon wings when they were stolen. I also gained another one when I got them back.

Also, when I got back from Damons spire everyone acted like I already had the Thieves" Crest. Probably has to do with never losing the White Dragon Wings..
Actually this makes sense regarding the dragon wings. I updated the item numbers for receiving items but not those for lost/gave/bet. You would never be able to lose them with the current logic.
Not sure about the thieves crest. That may require finer scrubbing of the scripts. Could be a result of changes in flag meanings between the two versions. Or like you said, the flag may just get set if the wings are in inventory.
 

JestroZooks

New Member
I had the same experience with the Wings. Had them equipped on Alex when they were stolen but still had them and was able to use them.
I had started playing 1.1.1 on a disc in my VA13 V-Saturn until the Ghaleon@Meribia freeze. I was unable to get that version to play on my VA0 with Fenrir but now 1.1.2c works great on it.

Ran into a few minor issues today. When getting a Barrier Ring the name reads fine but when it's in the inventory the first letter is garbled. Something similar with the Holy Armor sprite has an extra piece on the bottom right.
Last one is I just became Dragonmaster so I took a trip to Meribia to get The Rememberizer from Ramus and he instead gave me an Angel's Tear. I'm guessing maybe this has to so with the item shift you spoke about.

Thanks for all the work, It's been great to play it again like this.
 

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