Dracula X Extended mod patch by paul_met

paul_met

Established Member
and it is even easier to not have exceptions when rendering a pattern table and just throw in a sprite instead.

You said it was incomprehensible, and I gave you the comprehensible reason behind it lol.
The tile maps of the two castles are different anyway, so a couple of other codes in the tile map cannot be an exception. But adding / removing a sprite is clearly more time consuming. In addition, there is no ladder in the inverted castle.
 

TrekkiesUnite118

Established Member
So what exactly is happening with the ladder? I'd imagine if it was the issue of VDP1 objects being erased by VDP1 transparencies we wouldn't even see the outline of it correct? We can also see Alucard is being blended with it, though incorrectly.
 

paul_met

Established Member
In the screenshots that I attached earlier with a demo of the changed menu color, you can see that the stepladder's palette is distorted. If it was in the tileset, there would be no problem.
 

TrekkiesUnite118

Established Member
So it's the same issue with Alucard then where the palette based sprite gives unpredictable results? I guess two work arounds you could try based on the VDP1 manual would be to change it to an RGB sprite or change it to use a CLUT with RGB colors instead?
 

paul_met

Established Member
So it's the same issue with Alucard then where the palette based sprite gives unpredictable results? I guess two work arounds you could try based on the VDP1 manual would be to change it to an RGB sprite or change it to use a CLUT with RGB colors instead?
If you are talking about changing the stepladder palette, then it already has a CLUT palette, otherwise it would not be visible through the menu windows.
 

TrekkiesUnite118

Established Member
Could you change it to something so it just doesn't show up at all? The only other options I could think of to deal with it would be to either switch that part of the menu back to using a mesh or move it to VDP2, but I think the animation it does might not work on VDP2.
 

paul_met

Established Member
Could you change it to something so it just doesn't show up at all? The only other options I could think of to deal with it would be to either switch that part of the menu back to using a mesh or move it to VDP2, but I think the animation it does might not work on VDP2.
I'll just turn off HT for the menu windows, which will remain translucent, but the ladder will no longer be visible.
 

Knight0fDragon

Established Member
The tile maps of the two castles are different anyway, so a couple of other codes in the tile map cannot be an exception. But adding / removing a sprite is clearly more time consuming. In addition, there is no ladder in the inverted castle.
the tile maps are the same but rotated 180 and with a different palette. Adding a sprite is less time consuming, not sure why you think it would be more.



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I would make this exact same decision. If it is on both parts of the castle, use the tile layer, otherwise, use a sprite

Your "addition" is exactly the point we are discussing here on why it is not on the tile layer lol.
 

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paul_met

Established Member
Tilemaps for both castles cannot be the same, since tilemap mirroring in X and Y is implemented using tilemap codes (11-8 bits). Therefore, it is much easier to change the value in the tilemap table than to write separate code to display an additional sprite via VDP1. I've dealt with tilemaps a lot and know how they work.
 

Knight0fDragon

Established Member
Tilemaps for both castles cannot be the same, since tilemap mirroring in X and Y is implemented using tilemap codes (11-8 bits). Therefore, it is much easier to change the value in the tilemap table than to write separate code to display an additional sprite via VDP1. I've dealt with tilemaps a lot and know how they work.
you are thinking this like a hacker.

Think like a developer with source code and tools to do work for you.
 

paul_met

Established Member
A hacker differs from a developer not in the presence of source codes and tools, but in the store of knowledge. If I had the knowledge of a developer, I would become one.
 

Knight0fDragon

Established Member
A hacker differs from a developer not in the presence of source codes and tools, but in the store of knowledge. If I had the knowledge of a developer, I would become one.
Um, ok lol.... there are a lot of other differences than that, but that is beyond scope.

If you can't place your mind set as a developer though, then it is going to be difficult to explain the process, but I will try.

The tile maps were most likely created with an inhouse tool similar to something like Tiled Tiled by an artist.

This inhouse tool would export the singular tile map into 2 different Saturn specific tile maps, one for regular part, and one rotated 180 for reversed part.

The developer would just import these maps into the project and work with it.

Now if you want to make the tile maps different, for regular and reverse, you are going to have to go back to the artist and request 2 tile maps for him to create.

This becomes a burden on your artist if he is modifying all of the tile maps even though 1/2 of them has a 99% identical counter part.

Instead, your artist can keep the work simple by separating that 1% part out and giving you a sprite asset, and where it goes on screen.

For you as a developer, this is 1 line of code usually. DrawSprite(assetname,x,y,color) or something to this effect depending on your environment.

On top of that, you can make quality checking easier.

You are guaranteeing that anything in the reverse castle is good on the VDP2 layer because it is 1:1 with your regular castle, just reversed.
 

paul_met

Established Member
You're over complicating things (in fact, everything is much simpler). I think that you just did not work much with tilemaps and it seems to you that it is more difficult than working with sprites. Well, it seems that each of us will still stick to his opinion. Therefore, I propose to end the dispute.
 

Knight0fDragon

Established Member
You're over complicating things (in fact, everything is much simpler). I think that you just did not work much with tilemaps and it seems to you that it is more difficult than working with sprites. Well, it seems that each of us will still stick to his opinion. Therefore, I propose to end the dispute.
LOL ok, whatever man I will agree to just end it.
 

TrekkiesUnite118

Established Member
You're over complicating things (in fact, everything is much simpler). I think that you just did not work much with tilemaps and it seems to you that it is more difficult than working with sprites. Well, it seems that each of us will still stick to his opinion. Therefore, I propose to end the dispute.
I don't think he was trying to say tilemaps are more difficult than sprites. He was just giving a reason for why it was done the way it was done. Think of it like this. Overall general structure of the room is the same across both castles and that part the developers did with tilemaps. The overall decoration of the room is different between castles and the individual decorations they did with sprites. The Ladder, Desk, Lamps, chairs, etc. are all decorations.
 

Knight0fDragon

Established Member
I don't think he was trying to say tilemaps are more difficult than sprites. He was just giving a reason for why it was done the way it was done. Think of it like this. Overall general structure of the room is the same across both castles and that part the developers did with tilemaps. The overall decoration of the room is different between castles and the individual decorations they did with sprites. The Ladder, Desk, Lamps, chairs, etc. are all decorations.
Right, I am not saying tile maps are more difficult. On the Saturn's end, a tile map would be easier and more efficient. It is in the development stages of the game that it becomes easier to use the sprite for the reasons you described.
 

TrekkiesUnite118

Established Member
And I'd imagine it was a side effect of how the game was done on PS1. If it was built for Saturn first I'd imagine they would have probably used another VDP2 tilemap layer for those static decorations.
 
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