1st Change at SX

[Cecilia Chen]

Hi Rev,

Doesn't games for systems such as PSX and SS count as still "Sellable"? They still sell PSX and SS games all over Ebay, and if you count Asian markets, stores still sell new sealed games all over. Its the same way the PSX2 is out, but people still buy PSX games.

At the very least, if the SS is lumped in as being non-sellable, then the dreamcast should be too, so as to allow for FTP downloads. The dreamcast like the SS could be considered discontinued in the US, but in Japan, China, HK, they still sell new packaged software. It seems to me, if you allow SS Isos, you also must allow Dreamcast isos. Otherwise its a double standard. In addition, Im curious about if one is hesitent to host Dreamcast ISO's, but not so about Saturn ISOs, expecialy when they seem to be in the same boat.

Personaly I think the whole idea of trying to seperate a line between "gray area" is asking for trouble. To keep it true to retro-gaming, you should just talk about and promote games, but not offer pirate FTPs or links to roms, isos, ect of older software (Eg. Why people started Console Vision and left DC Emulation).

 

[mtxblau]

Originally posted by Cecilia Chen@July 10 2002,00:58

At the very least, if the SS is lumped in as being non-sellable, then the dreamcast should be too...

Thing is, DC games are still being sold in stores whereas Saturn games aren't. Ebay doesn't count, because those are private sellers.

And the PSX has the PSOne, and as far as I can tell, they didn't pull support of the PSX.

Essentially, the DC and SS are no longer supported, but the games for the DC are still sold in stores whereas Saturn games are not. AND, there are games that are still being released for the DC, whereas there are none for the Saturn.

 

[jim993]

and for some games renting them is illegal(i believe nintendo tried to sue blockbuster over it but the court rulled in favor of blockbuster) (i also believe i read somewhere in a copyright agreement or some kind of legal warning thing in a game manual)

 

[Cecilia Chen]

Hi MTXBlau,

Games for the saturn ARE STILL being sold in stores! Here is a good example of a store where you can order New Saturn games:

www.goldenshop.com.hk/AI-trad/collect/ss.htm

Im sure I could find more, but this was just the first English language store I could find. I think more people are just saying SS items arn't sold anymore because they want an excuse to pirate them, rather than pay money for it.

 

[mtxblau]

Originally posted by Cecilia Chen@July 10 2002,01:11

Hi MTXBlau,

Games for the saturn ARE STILL being sold in stores! Here is a good example of a store where you can order New Saturn games:

Fine, mainstream, non online stores. :

:

I don't play my saturn anymore, and until Rev mentioned it, I didn't even know what the ftpA forum meant. The only thing I did know about it was if you weren't signed in you couldn't see it.

Maybe the view is purely pro USA (sadly), but it's not for us to decide.

 

[Curtis]

I think the more important argument (if you want to call it that) is that the Saturn is definately 100% out of production. No new games in development. No new hardware. Any stores you find selling games new are probably just selling off old stocks to cover their own losses. Sega is not receiving any more money for those shops selling those games than if they just sat in the back of a store room for the next 50 years.

Plus if Rev says that DC games are out, then DC games are out. I know I can live with that.

 

[Cecilia Chen]

Technicaly by your logic, the Dreamcast should be allowed because even BEFORE the final SS games started coming out (Such as Final Fight Revenge, and that Dating sim Trilogy) people were pirating Saturn games.

At the very lease, all DC games, except the 1 or 2 new games coming out (Final releases) should be able to pass as retro-games.

As you can see, we have this gray line again. Why the heck would you allow pirating of the SS games so early in advance, while not the Dreamcast? For Final Fight revenge, I know mods here tryed to ban its distribution, since it was a new game, but still promoted pirating of other saturn games. You would expect them to treat the Dreamcasst the same way, as to allow downloads of ISOs for other games, but not the one or two new games like the Radiant Silvergun sequal which are the few final release. And if you don't feel comfortable allowing dreamcast games, what justified the way people handled the Saturn back then!?!

 

[DBOY]

HOLY BATCRAP! They want $79 for Final Fight Revenge? FUCK! I only paid $49 an that was the week it was released. It's not THAT RARE.

Same with Konami Antiques MSX Collection. I picked that one up for $9.99 new in an Electronics Botique back in '98.

 

[SkankinMonkey]

It's a shitty game to begin with, heh.

 

[SkankinMonkey]

Originally posted by Cecilia Chen@July 11 2002,00:26

Technicaly by your logic, the Dreamcast should be allowed because even BEFORE the final SS games started coming out (Such as Final Fight Revenge, and that Dating sim Trilogy) people were pirating Saturn games.

At the very lease, all DC games, except the 1 or 2 new games coming out (Final releases) should be able to pass as retro-games.

As you can see, we have this gray line again. Why the heck would you allow pirating of the SS games so early in advance, while not the Dreamcast? For Final Fight revenge, I know mods here tryed to ban its distribution, since it was a new game, but still promoted pirating of other saturn games. You would expect them to treat the Dreamcasst the same way, as to allow downloads of ISOs for other games, but not the one or two new games like the Radiant Silvergun sequal which are the few final release. And if you don't feel comfortable allowing dreamcast games, what justified the way people handled the Saturn back then!?!

SegaXtreme does not, and will not support DC piracy. That includes the first games that were released for the Dreamcast, and ones not yet released. This may change in 5 years if the site still exists, but this is our policy for now, and the forseeable future.

 

[Curtis]

Originally posted by Cecilia Chen@July 11 2002,15:26

Technicaly by your logic, the Dreamcast should be allowed because even BEFORE the final SS games started coming out (Such as Final Fight Revenge, and that Dating sim Trilogy) people were pirating Saturn games.

At the very lease, all DC games, except the 1 or 2 new games coming out (Final releases) should be able to pass as retro-games.

As you can see, we have this gray line again. Why the heck would you allow pirating of the SS games so early in advance, while not the Dreamcast? For Final Fight revenge, I know mods here tryed to ban its distribution, since it was a new game, but still promoted pirating of other saturn games. You would expect them to treat the Dreamcasst the same way, as to allow downloads of ISOs for other games, but not the one or two new games like the Radiant Silvergun sequal which are the few final release. And if you don't feel comfortable allowing dreamcast games, what justified the way people handled the Saturn back then!?!

Your argument is sound and as time passes your "grey line" is going to become greyer, but for now I am content to believe that anything SS is acceptable and anything DC is not welcome here.

That's my personal point of view and I don't expect others to follow it or agree with it.

As MTXBlau put it, it's not for us to decide.

 

[DBOY]

Originally posted by SkankinMonkey@July 10 2002,21:29

It's a shitty game to begin with, heh.

It suffered from Capcom-itis. It introduced a lot of cool new ideas but that's all it was, a bunch of cool new ideas. It never really came together and was eternally missing that extra something (read: solid gameplay) required to make it not blow goats.

 

[Fabrizo]

Basicly, no downloads for games on next-gen systems. Its as simple as that.

 

[Cecilia Chen]

Hi Curtis,

I agree, since we have no say over the matter, but it seems to me that "Managment" has done many inconsistant things, while trying to justify its actions. I can remember we had the same talk when Final Fight Revenge came out. Managments response was that they would ban distrubuting the game to justify hosting older SS games (Allow retro gaming, not new game pirating).

Now, in this case, they just said that DC pirating is not allowed, while Saturn is. Period, no justification, its just the law. I think most people would be more happy if they were consistant and fair for all consoles, rather than just making rules which fit for what they want to justify in their minds. It seems to me, if they wanted to justify another type of consol pirating, they could easily switch sides and make rules which favor its argument, which in itself makes it hard to accept all this inconsistant decision making.

But instead they are so bent on pirating saturn games, that even when the same argument could be made for it (since they offer the same protection for the Dreamcast) they ignored it anyways. ???

 

[DBOY]

Next-gen has been such a recycled term

Super Famicon, Neo-Geo, and Megadrive were Next-gen, at the time. Then Saturn, N64, and PSX were Next-Gen. Then Dreamcast, PS2, X-BOX, and GameCube were Next-gen. Though at this point most people have started to consider Dreamcast Last-gen :-/

BTW: Cecilia: I just noticed that store you posted earlier lists Marvel vs Street Fighter as Marvel vs Capcom.

Someone, somewhere is going to be a little disappointed with their order

 

[SkankinMonkey]

While it may seem inconsistant, the only consoles that SegaXtreme has explicitly supported (and no, I'm not talking about Mysticales, she and SegaXtreme's ideals are two different things) are Sega-CD and Saturn. At the time FFR was a new game, similar to what Ikaruga will be when it is released. The difference now is, we are not directly linking to any of these games.

Heck, most of the staff (again, not including the above said) have huge collections of original games, and really only download games that we can't afford. I'm sure you've seen pictures of Rev's collection in the past, it's enormous. I'm all for supporting the developers of great games. In the past the games that I've downloaded and enjoyed, I bought, others I usually use as a coaster for sodas (right now i have Resident Evil keeping my table dry from my can of Pepsi.)

The point of downloading games should not be for permenant use, as some people do, it should be a try and buy thing. I really think paying money and having everything (cards, spine, instructions, art, etc) is worth it, and can't understand how people could not feel the same way.

 

[Fabrizo]

Ok, to be more clear then: Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, XBox, and GBA are next gen systems. I don't see why people would say Dreamcast isn't a next-gen system...

 

[DBOY]

Probably because int he North American market (which seems to think it's the only market the matters) the machine never really quite peaked. It did well in 2000 and in 2001 it went splut. As such all the l33t marketing analysts considered it a failure not suite as bad as the 3DO but still rather bad. It's too bad that's all this takes to consider a game system a failure. I love CD-i. Those Zelda games were sweet. Those alone were worth buying th emachine. Now if only oldergames would get the rights to release super mario's wacky worlds.

 

[Cecilia Chen]

Hi SkankinMonkey,

I think Mystical has her own tangent she works on. She does things like posts links to roms, gets warnings for her actions by other mods, then defends herself saying SX isn't some "holly saint" place, and they do things for whatever reason they want. I don't think this matchs with many other moderators views. This "We are not perfect, so we can pirate whatever we want" additude causes a lot of confusion and friction, expecialy when the managment trys to state its position and defend itself.

 

[jim993]

i wonder if its because companies that made dreamcast games are still bringing in some revenue from the selling of dreamcast games(i don't know if campcom and all the other companies are still selling dreamcast games off of their site i remember campcom dropped all their dreamcast games to 19.99).

here's my thinking(note i never owned a ss and never will and will probably never play a ss game in my life) in the us and canada new games for the saturn stopped being sold a long time ago, now the revenue that a company actually got(i'm talking the makers of the game) stopped coming in for most of those games years ago(note the word most since there are lines of games that are still around so on a technicality they still make money off the games eg. resident evil).

now sure there may be many stores that sell brand new fresh in the package never been touched non broken in cherry in tack virgin copies of barkleys shut up and jam(insert a ss game) the makers of barkleys shut up and jam do not make any money off of it. hell i could have bought a stack of some lame ass saturn game for 5 dollars a piece when nobody wanted them off of a store then sold them for 10 dollars a piece and that sale didn't affect the makers of that game at all. (this is the point that i realize i'm damn tired and i brake into a long meaning less ramble that goes nowhere and people that read this already understand my point and will probably reiterate what i've said in a more understandable manner). wooooowhoooo i just bought a 100 dollar version of shinning force 3 wooowhoooooo sega doesn't give a shit that i spent 100 dollars on that game since they already made their money off of it when they sold it to what ever store carried it. see what i'm getting at that's my theory but it's a convaluted theory that's filled with ramblings.

editorial i should have wrote this up faster and made more mistakes because now it seems like a pointless post

2nd editorial there does that improve the readabilty?(actually i tend not to care about readability in my posts that's why i leave out any proper punctuation, have run on sentences, don't capitalize at the beggining of sentences, add many thoughts that shouldn't be included(ramble) and so on.)

and another reason i didn't use the return is because my post was long and putting in spaces makes it longer)