1st Change at SX
- Thread starter RevQuixo
- Start date
Cecilia Chen
Ban Hammered
Hi Rev,
About myself, I have been here at SX ever since You, Mowglie, SkankinMonkey, and all the other key founders were around. Also I'v seen the rise and fall of SX many times over. I never activly posted in the forums until all the direct linking to games were removed. Some time later, SX decided to host FTPs which is basicly just another type of "Address" which links to a place to download games. The only diffrence is, its a direct link to a personal computer, and not a Free-Drive type service.
About people and paying for games, some games may be expensive for some people. But by some peoples argument, they try to justify the theift/copying of software because they can't aford the price.
I think already there is an inharent flaw in their logic which sometimes scares me. I think if you owned a big screen TV, that I couldn't afford, you wouldn't appreciate it if I went and stole it from you, would you? And I sure as hell know if I said to you "I have a right to do so, because i can't afford it." you'd be even more angry at my justification! But the fact is, people try to justify it all the time on SX with pirating SS games! Yet, they feel they can seperate whats good from bad, and try to do things others cannot to justfiy it in their minds!
Now, just because sega doesn't make development royaltys, doesn't mean what you do dosn't hurt people. Other people down the product distribution chain who would like to sell left over import stock, or keep on stocking new games for retro-customers are being shafted every day! For some reason again, with this twisted logic, people have so much due care when it comes to Sega, but when if comes to everyone else, they don't have the same rights! This is almost something that goes against what most of the free world holds important!!! (Everyone is equal and has equal rights).
About myself, I have been here at SX ever since You, Mowglie, SkankinMonkey, and all the other key founders were around. Also I'v seen the rise and fall of SX many times over. I never activly posted in the forums until all the direct linking to games were removed. Some time later, SX decided to host FTPs which is basicly just another type of "Address" which links to a place to download games. The only diffrence is, its a direct link to a personal computer, and not a Free-Drive type service.
About people and paying for games, some games may be expensive for some people. But by some peoples argument, they try to justify the theift/copying of software because they can't aford the price.
I think already there is an inharent flaw in their logic which sometimes scares me. I think if you owned a big screen TV, that I couldn't afford, you wouldn't appreciate it if I went and stole it from you, would you? And I sure as hell know if I said to you "I have a right to do so, because i can't afford it." you'd be even more angry at my justification! But the fact is, people try to justify it all the time on SX with pirating SS games! Yet, they feel they can seperate whats good from bad, and try to do things others cannot to justfiy it in their minds!
Now, just because sega doesn't make development royaltys, doesn't mean what you do dosn't hurt people. Other people down the product distribution chain who would like to sell left over import stock, or keep on stocking new games for retro-customers are being shafted every day! For some reason again, with this twisted logic, people have so much due care when it comes to Sega, but when if comes to everyone else, they don't have the same rights! This is almost something that goes against what most of the free world holds important!!! (Everyone is equal and has equal rights).
And this is why I don't agree with people who purely pirate games either. I personally own well over 100 original Sega Saturn games. I bought my system one the first day of the surprise early Saturn launch and bought games straight through Final Fight Revenge (*the horror*).
Now back in the good old days, when I had to walk five miles in the snow barefoot to get my isos, pretty much everyone who contributed to this site had a large Saturn Originals Collection...and we traded amongst ourselves sharing undiscovered gems. As I said in a previous thread, now that the Saturn has gained more of an acceptance, the average leecher has shifted to those people who never had a Saturn during its lifespan and now want games.
It was bound to happen eventually. Personally, I'm not too thrilled about it, since the "newbies" sometimes don't seem to have the same appreciation (this is not true all the time I know) for the Saturn has the steadfast Saturn-heads. I would like to put on the record that I vehemently objected to the idea of FTPs in the beginning of this site for many of the same reasons that I shut down the FTPa a) it breeds exclusivity and
it gives an easy opportunity to snowball into ISOs that the site doesn't approve of.
Personally, I haven't downloaded a Saturn ISO in quite some time....I'm just not in the mindset any longer. But I understand that other people want them, so I see no reason not to let teh ftp forum continue to do its thing. However, I'd rather not bring the wrath of copyright lawyers done on this site for providing links to materials on ftps that goes aganist what the site has always provided.
Now it has been a long standing assumption that Sega is well aware of our activities here and they tolerated it since we didn't harm their current marketability. Now, be that true or false, I still don't want to rock the boat anymore than is necessary.
So, if you want DC isos...start a DCXtreme. Hell, I'll even tell people who email me asking about em where to go to find them. But they are not a part of the SX plan, nor should they have to be.
Editted for some of the glaring spelling errors
Now back in the good old days, when I had to walk five miles in the snow barefoot to get my isos, pretty much everyone who contributed to this site had a large Saturn Originals Collection...and we traded amongst ourselves sharing undiscovered gems. As I said in a previous thread, now that the Saturn has gained more of an acceptance, the average leecher has shifted to those people who never had a Saturn during its lifespan and now want games.
It was bound to happen eventually. Personally, I'm not too thrilled about it, since the "newbies" sometimes don't seem to have the same appreciation (this is not true all the time I know) for the Saturn has the steadfast Saturn-heads. I would like to put on the record that I vehemently objected to the idea of FTPs in the beginning of this site for many of the same reasons that I shut down the FTPa a) it breeds exclusivity and
Personally, I haven't downloaded a Saturn ISO in quite some time....I'm just not in the mindset any longer. But I understand that other people want them, so I see no reason not to let teh ftp forum continue to do its thing. However, I'd rather not bring the wrath of copyright lawyers done on this site for providing links to materials on ftps that goes aganist what the site has always provided.
Now it has been a long standing assumption that Sega is well aware of our activities here and they tolerated it since we didn't harm their current marketability. Now, be that true or false, I still don't want to rock the boat anymore than is necessary.
So, if you want DC isos...start a DCXtreme. Hell, I'll even tell people who email me asking about em where to go to find them. But they are not a part of the SX plan, nor should they have to be.
Editted for some of the glaring spelling errors
Cecilia Chen
Ban Hammered
Hi Mal,
Yes, I have many games which are not an original product. Many were sent over from HK, and in such citys, its is very difficult to find anything which isn't stolen, copied, piarted, or gray market in origin. This is something that some people can't help. The same could be said in other places of the world, which also does not have original products (Like Brazil, Russia, Tiwan, Singapore, ect). As an example, if you ever traveled to the ShaanXi provice in China, I dare ANYONE to try and find an original VCD title. Even if you paid people, you wouldn't find it, because its not possible to buy them. Even the VCDs with holographic stickers, and excelent looking products are pirate.
Now, even all that aside, what I have done or regreted in my life is in the past. I can't change history, but people MUST start making a consious effort to change their additudes and do the right thing, otherwise the world is going to be very poor place in the future. Things like the Environment are a good example, where you must not only learn from ones mistakes, but activly promote what is right, because it is, and that people have to start thinking forward, and not backwards. Otherwise, you just contribute to the wrong ideas people need to escape (Such as "im only one person, so I can throw my trash on the ground")
Update: Might I add, just an intresting thought
. lets say someone used to kill people but has realized how terrible it was and has changed into a new person after he leaves jail. He goes to another previous "Killer" associate, and starts telling him how killing is wrong, and violent and bad. His associate could say, your points are wrong because before you used to do exactly the same thing! Does that mean his new views are any less good, correct or right than if a normal person of the street were to view life and peoples rights/the law the same way? It shouldn't, because killing people IS wrong, but some people seem to apply this logic on other things as well.
Yes, I have many games which are not an original product. Many were sent over from HK, and in such citys, its is very difficult to find anything which isn't stolen, copied, piarted, or gray market in origin. This is something that some people can't help. The same could be said in other places of the world, which also does not have original products (Like Brazil, Russia, Tiwan, Singapore, ect). As an example, if you ever traveled to the ShaanXi provice in China, I dare ANYONE to try and find an original VCD title. Even if you paid people, you wouldn't find it, because its not possible to buy them. Even the VCDs with holographic stickers, and excelent looking products are pirate.
Now, even all that aside, what I have done or regreted in my life is in the past. I can't change history, but people MUST start making a consious effort to change their additudes and do the right thing, otherwise the world is going to be very poor place in the future. Things like the Environment are a good example, where you must not only learn from ones mistakes, but activly promote what is right, because it is, and that people have to start thinking forward, and not backwards. Otherwise, you just contribute to the wrong ideas people need to escape (Such as "im only one person, so I can throw my trash on the ground")
Update: Might I add, just an intresting thought
Cecilia Chen
Ban Hammered
Hi Mal,
From my update above:
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Might I add, just an intresting thought . lets say someone used to kill people but has realized how terrible it was and has changed into a new person after he leaves jail. He goes to another previous "Killer" associate, and starts telling him how killing is wrong, and violent and bad. His associate could say, your points are wrong because before you used to do exactly the same thing! Does that mean his new views are any less good, correct or right than if a normal person of the street were to view life and peoples rights/the law the same way? It shouldn't, because killing people IS wrong, but some people seem to apply this logic on other things as well.
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So do you mean to tell me my views about piracy are wrong? At the very least one could make the argument I have changed my views/stance about it, but to say its wrong because of my history is not really something which gives credit to an argument.
As for destroying CDs and all things pirate, I would hope before you start telling people what they should or should not do, that at the very least you do it first. If you can't ask yourself to do it, how can you ask others to?
I think destroying things, expecily private colections which don't effect anyone except the person who owns it is just destructive. Now, allowing people to download yours games would be diffrent. That shouldn't happen. Seeing as how enthusiastic you seem about the idea, why don't you destroy your MOD chips, pirate games, and stop helping others to pirate software? While the chances are slim, I think almost 99% of the people who have MODS are for pirating games, and not development.
From my update above:
---------------------------------------------
Might I add, just an intresting thought . lets say someone used to kill people but has realized how terrible it was and has changed into a new person after he leaves jail. He goes to another previous "Killer" associate, and starts telling him how killing is wrong, and violent and bad. His associate could say, your points are wrong because before you used to do exactly the same thing! Does that mean his new views are any less good, correct or right than if a normal person of the street were to view life and peoples rights/the law the same way? It shouldn't, because killing people IS wrong, but some people seem to apply this logic on other things as well.
---------------------------------------------
So do you mean to tell me my views about piracy are wrong? At the very least one could make the argument I have changed my views/stance about it, but to say its wrong because of my history is not really something which gives credit to an argument.
As for destroying CDs and all things pirate, I would hope before you start telling people what they should or should not do, that at the very least you do it first. If you can't ask yourself to do it, how can you ask others to?
I think destroying things, expecily private colections which don't effect anyone except the person who owns it is just destructive. Now, allowing people to download yours games would be diffrent. That shouldn't happen. Seeing as how enthusiastic you seem about the idea, why don't you destroy your MOD chips, pirate games, and stop helping others to pirate software? While the chances are slim, I think almost 99% of the people who have MODS are for pirating games, and not development.
That stuff about the reformed murderer is irrelavent. In that case you can't change the past.
By your logic would a reformed thief keep any money he stashed before his change of heart?
I'm not saying your view on piracy is wrong. I am saying it is even more confusing than SX's stance on piracy. You know, the one that you constantly complain about.
The question mark at the end of the words indicates something is being asked. I was not telling you to do anything.
Explain to me the difference between downloading no longer supported games and buying (or being given) pirate discs that were probably around at the time Sega was still trying to make money from the Saturn. I'd say the current downloading is the lesser of two evils.
But wait. You've already got your games. It's OK to stop others getting them now.
I'm not going to destroy any of my mods, CDRs or my lone HK silver (I was given it last year) because I don't have the same views as you. While I'm glad the FTPA is gone, I wish the the FTP owners and users all the best.
By your logic would a reformed thief keep any money he stashed before his change of heart?
I'm not saying your view on piracy is wrong. I am saying it is even more confusing than SX's stance on piracy. You know, the one that you constantly complain about.
The question mark at the end of the words indicates something is being asked. I was not telling you to do anything.
Explain to me the difference between downloading no longer supported games and buying (or being given) pirate discs that were probably around at the time Sega was still trying to make money from the Saturn. I'd say the current downloading is the lesser of two evils.
But wait. You've already got your games. It's OK to stop others getting them now.
I'm not going to destroy any of my mods, CDRs or my lone HK silver (I was given it last year) because I don't have the same views as you. While I'm glad the FTPA is gone, I wish the the FTP owners and users all the best.
Cecilia Chen
Ban Hammered
Hi Mal,
Do you agree my views on piracy are not wrong? Because if you also agree, then your statment of "But wait. You've already got your games. It's OK to stop others getting them now." doesn't make sence since im only doing what is right in the first place. Thats like me killing someone, and then later changing my mind thinking it was so horrible to do, so others shouldn't do it. Do you mean to tell me that Im saying it only because I got to kill first, and now I want to stop others from doing it because I already got my share/enjoyment out of it? Im not saying killing is bad because I already got my statisfaction out of it, and want to stop others from doing it. Im just saying such a fact because its right and what people should have done in the first place. Which is exactly the reason people shouldn't slant one on other issues such as this.
Do you agree my views on piracy are not wrong? Because if you also agree, then your statment of "But wait. You've already got your games. It's OK to stop others getting them now." doesn't make sence since im only doing what is right in the first place. Thats like me killing someone, and then later changing my mind thinking it was so horrible to do, so others shouldn't do it. Do you mean to tell me that Im saying it only because I got to kill first, and now I want to stop others from doing it because I already got my share/enjoyment out of it? Im not saying killing is bad because I already got my statisfaction out of it, and want to stop others from doing it. Im just saying such a fact because its right and what people should have done in the first place. Which is exactly the reason people shouldn't slant one on other issues such as this.
RevQuixo, I like the changes so far. I'm not a big supporter of the ftps anyway, but this is for practical reasons at the moment.(to slow connection speed) As far as cecilia.....She can speak for herself I'm sure but here is one inconsistency in her arguement. She has, time and again, made posts to this effect that she owns tons of HK silvers and other bootleg games and equipt. So a few find it inconsistent that she always seems to be argueing against copied games for any reason. We don't get it. Having said that, she does seem to be a very sweet personality in the forums. Read her posts and draw you own conclusions.
I don't know how you've latched on to murder as being similar to piracy but here goes...
A murderer cannot bring back a life wrongly taken away after having changed their ways.
A software pirate can destroy the games they have illegally aquired after changing their ways.
Do you still play these pirated games?
If you do you are no better than any of the people downloading games right now. In fact you are worse. It's an incredible double standard. How can you live one yourself and yet campaign against the percieved double standard here?
If you don't, why not destroy them? It must tear at you, being against piracy and owning what might be one of the biggest pirate collections about.
A murderer cannot bring back a life wrongly taken away after having changed their ways.
A software pirate can destroy the games they have illegally aquired after changing their ways.
Do you still play these pirated games?
If you do you are no better than any of the people downloading games right now. In fact you are worse. It's an incredible double standard. How can you live one yourself and yet campaign against the percieved double standard here?
If you don't, why not destroy them? It must tear at you, being against piracy and owning what might be one of the biggest pirate collections about.
Cecilia Chen
Ban Hammered
Hi alugub,
What makes you assume I was downloading games and leeching SX dry? Now this argument is just starting to become assumptions! I never posted on the forums, nor contributed to it because of the direct linking to games. And technicaly, I have no reason to do so anyways because as other people pointed out, I have such games already and more. How can people accuse me of sucking SX dry buring CD-Rs games on one hand while also accusing me for already having a goddly HK pirate collection?
But seeing as how we probably won't get anything solved here, we might as well happly end the topic since really we could go on for years!
What makes you assume I was downloading games and leeching SX dry? Now this argument is just starting to become assumptions! I never posted on the forums, nor contributed to it because of the direct linking to games. And technicaly, I have no reason to do so anyways because as other people pointed out, I have such games already and more. How can people accuse me of sucking SX dry buring CD-Rs games on one hand while also accusing me for already having a goddly HK pirate collection?
But seeing as how we probably won't get anything solved here, we might as well happly end the topic since really we could go on for years!
Cecilia Chen
Ban Hammered
Hi Mal,
No the questions are not hard at all. Its just people are now starting to introduce things like assumptions, and other items which makes arguing pointless. This is the same way, as people who think "Raising their voice, or call people names" counts as a valid argument. Its only going to turn the thread into something pointless.
No the questions are not hard at all. Its just people are now starting to introduce things like assumptions, and other items which makes arguing pointless. This is the same way, as people who think "Raising their voice, or call people names" counts as a valid argument. Its only going to turn the thread into something pointless.